Author Topic: Goat's Milk Cheeses - Goaty Scent & Flavour  (Read 6040 times)

cheezwhizz

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Goat's Milk Cheeses - Goaty Scent & Flavour
« on: December 11, 2010, 04:14:34 PM »
  Hi All,
    A few weeks ago i was in the store and came across "Goat Cheese". I had never tasted it before, so I immediately purchased some... A 4 oz. pkg. of a young semi soft cheese generically labeled "Goat Cheese" at a cost of 2.99 USD....After returning home from the store i opened it. And in great anticipation i took my first taste of this "goat cheese"....hahaa...YYUK!!!  :o.....Wow i couldnt believe how "GOATY" this stuff tasted. Ive eaten goat MEAT many times before and i do really enjoy it. It has a slightly gamy flavor in the backround. In this cheese i get the same gamy flavor. But x 10..its just to strong for my palette.

    So my question is....When goats milk is made into a "hard aged cheese". Does it loose some of its strong gamy flavor?..If it does,  I would like to try to make some as i have just found an unlimited supply of raw goats milk.
   Any recommendations for a toned down goats milk cheese?

       Thanks.......Hugh

linuxboy

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Re: Goat's Milk Cheeses - Goaty Scent & Flavour
« Reply #1 on: December 11, 2010, 04:57:44 PM »
Hugh, it is the milk handling and sanitation protocol that determines that goaty flavor. Sometimes diet and other factors, like buck proximity, make a difference, but I have found this to rarely make a big difference.

Goat milk has a higher ratio of the "goaty" fatty acids in the fat. these are the intermediate chain fatty acids, the C8, C10, and C12. They are easily broken up and liberated from the glycerol base by two things:

1) The natural lipases in goat milk. These are very active at room temp. Meaning any time you milk, that milk must be chilled down as fast as possible.
2) Agitation. Those fats break apart with agitation, which speeds up the reactions of lipases breaking apart the triglyceride.

In short, chill immediately, strip into a strip cup before milking, practice proper udder sanitation (including post dip), and handle the milk gently.

I've made hard cheese from goat milk that has zero goat taste, but that was usually from milk that was less than 12 hours old.

Also, sometimes a particular line of goats has milk that is not very good, or an animal may not have enough nutrients of microelements.

To answer your question, no, during aging, the goaty flavors actually intensify.

Oberhasli

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Re: Goat's Milk Cheeses - Goaty Scent & Flavour
« Reply #2 on: December 11, 2010, 06:01:33 PM »
Cheezwhizz,

I agree with LB, it's all how you take care of your milk.  I remember when I first got goats and considered making cheese.  I thought - I'd better go and buy some of this stuff and see how it is first.  I bought a small pyramid of cheese from Switzerland I think.  Whew - what a taste!  It was so strong it could have done bench presses!  But, I make goat cheese that is mild tasting and it doesn't have a strong taste or smell, even my parms and romanos.  If you look on some older posts though, some people define goat cheeses by that "smell" and like it.  It is all about what you grew up with I suppose.

Bonnie

cheezwhizz

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Re: Goat's Milk Cheeses - Goaty Scent & Flavour
« Reply #3 on: December 11, 2010, 10:09:06 PM »
 Hi All 
    And THANK YOU for the detailed response. GREAT!! info here.... You have convinced me to try my hand at this goats milk cheese.

   Sounds like the quality and care of the milk is paramount.  As for sanitation protocol.. I cant say.. But, Im guessing its good. The woman who offered me this milk is the wife of a Mennonite farmer. And if the milk is as good as the meats and vegetables they raise. It will be BEST quality for sure. I have found they are expert in what they do. Tomarrow at 8:00am i will pickup my first batch!!!!! of RAW Cows milk from her. ( YESSSS !!!!!) .... At that time ill ask about the goats milk. She's the one who suggested to me I might want to try goats milk it if Im making cheeses, as she has other customers who use it. I know i can have this milk from teet to stove top easily in under "4" hours if i request it.
 When i order some goats milk from her. Ill ask her to be sure to chill it immediately. And when i fill the containers, ill top them off so the milk has no room to move or get agitated.
   Ive already started to research goats milk and i can see i should get a better yield  at aprox.18%. As opposed to cows milk at aprox. 10%.... But in my research i dont see too much in the way of recipes.-Cultures to add, rennet amounts, lipase additions, floc times, multipliers etc. ...Im not to worried about this cause I can  do experimenting on my own. Take some notes. And figure from there.  But i would love a jumping off point to give me some ideas......a recipe???...Also has anyone noticed a difference in rennet amounts needed?...could or should lipase be added to  raw goats milk for sharpness???? 

    Thanks     Hugh

   

 

linuxboy

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Re: Goat's Milk Cheeses - Goaty Scent & Flavour
« Reply #4 on: December 11, 2010, 11:05:08 PM »
There are plenty of recipes out there, both in print and online. What sort of cheese do you want to make?

Also, if you can get 4-hour old milk, I wouldn't even bother chilling it. When there's heavy summer milk, I'll combine the cold evening milk with the fresh, warm morning milk and take that and use as is for cheesemaking. Of course, if you're buying from the farm, and their routine is all set up for chilling, just buy what they have.

The yield for cow and goat milk depends on the breed. I can get 40% yield sometimes for Nigerian milk, when making lactic cheeses (this is 4-5% casein, 10-12% fat). For alpine milk, it's something like 14%. Less, of course, for hard cheeses.

The rennet amount depends on the milk solids. Less rennet for higher solids.  Lipase depends on the cheese.

KosherBaker

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Re: Goat's Milk Cheeses - Goaty Scent & Flavour
« Reply #5 on: December 12, 2010, 05:47:18 AM »
Hugh, can you please please please share the brand of the goat cheese you purchased and possibly where? I'm actually looking for a goat cheese with a slightly stronger flavor. :) It's a taste my tong had to get used to. When I started buying Chevre I too found it's flavor to be too strong when consumed raw, but being from California I mostly bought it as a pizza topping. :) And once backed it goes through an amazing transformation. It becomes slightly milder yet richer and smoother. A perfect pairing for a tomato sauce that is on the pizza. Another great way see goat cheese potential is to pair it with beets. Red beets especially. Now being winter and beets being in season. I would highly recommend that. I make ravioli or W. Puck's beet and goat cheese napoleons.
Also, I buy my goat cheese from Trader Joe's. They sell several kinds. But one of them is Kosher and is under their own label. I believe it is made by a Canadian company and it has a very mild taste. About the same weight 4-5oz and I believe it is even less than $3. :) Just in case you are looking for something milder tasting to get you started with Goat Cheese.

I have a question for goat milkers. Has anyone ever put the milk pale inside another pale filled with ice water? So that the goat milk would start to chill as the goat is being milked? Just curious if such a technique has/would work.

linuxboy

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Re: Goat's Milk Cheeses - Goaty Scent & Flavour
« Reply #6 on: December 12, 2010, 06:16:43 AM »
Yes, rudy, very common to put the pail inside a 5 gal or 7 gal bucket filled with ice water/ice. Milk cools as you milk, so by the time you get to the fridge, it's already 55-65 degrees instead of 100. There are all sorts of strategies, from the very basic, to using heat exchangers.

cheezwhizz

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Re: Goat's Milk Cheeses - Goaty Scent & Flavour
« Reply #7 on: December 12, 2010, 06:33:13 PM »

   Sure Rudy, :) bought the cheese at a store chain named Aldi. In rural New York.. here's the store locater link   http://www.aldifoods.com/us/html/service/store_locator_ENU_HTML.htm

   The info on the package is...EDANVALE,Cheese Makers Choice, Goat Cheese......ingredients- pasteurized goat milk,salt,cheese cultures,veg. rennet.    As for where the cheese is made?..it doesnt say...it only says distributed by Aldi Inc. Batavia Illinois.....hope this helps.

     I have to tell you. I think this goat cheese might be an acquired taste for me. All day yesterday i nibbled at it. and by the end of the day. my tastebuds didnt seam to mind having a goats hoof stepping on them, while i was trying to eat cheese ;)....Just kidding, the flavors growing on me...I never thought of using this in cooking. But now that you mention it. I can imagine this might be very very nice on a pizza. Or matched with other bold flavors to balance it a little. Thanks for the ideas. I'll try the pizza and Pucks napoleans with beets this week.

     Bonnie, I didnt realize you could convert cows milk recipes to goats milk. ::) For my first 2 cheeses ill do a Parm and a Romano. I enjoy both these cheeses when made from cows milk. itll be interesting to see how they differ when made with the goat.

   Ok LB, Ill do some searches and see what i come up with..Thanks for getting me pointed in the right direction.

       Hugh

fiddletree

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Re: Goat's Milk Cheeses - Goaty Scent & Flavour
« Reply #8 on: December 14, 2010, 02:29:04 PM »
I've heard it has a lot to do with the breed of goat... but, I'm not an expert.  This next week I'll be helping to make goat cheese for the first time (goat farmer/cheese maker friend), so maybe I'll learn something!

I don't like my goat cheese 'goaty'... but there are tons of mild goat cheeses out there that are to die for, both soft and hard.  Where I am from in the US, there are a number of local cheese makers who make fresh goat cheeses that aren't goaty whatsoever.  It's a matter of trying different kinds and seeing what you like.  Here in Italy, even though I'm by the french border, it is nearly impossible to find fresh goat cheese :(.  In the spring I'll have access to fresh goat milk, so I'll start making it myself, then.

good luck!

cheezwhizz

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Re: Goat's Milk Cheeses - Goaty Scent & Flavour
« Reply #9 on: December 15, 2010, 09:59:20 PM »

 Hi Fiddltree,

  Thanks for the input. I WILL be trying goat cheeses now when i find them.....Good luck with your goat cheese making !...Send us some photos!!!!. Would love to see how they do it over in Italy... If you can, send us some recipes Tooo !!!!

      Hugh

 

Offline steffb503

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Re: Goat's Milk Cheeses - Goaty Scent & Flavour
« Reply #10 on: March 20, 2011, 11:06:56 AM »
I know this is a bit old but I could use some advice and I think Oberhasli is the one to help.

I have been trying my hand at raw aged goat cheese. I have raw goat milk available non-stop. So my milk tastes wonderful and lasts for a very long time without getting goaty. I have made many cheese with it and love the mild taste of the Chevre, Feta and Camembert. But the hard cheese all has that nasty taste. It tastes good when young but once it reaches the 60 day mark it starts to get goaty. I have even opened a Havarti at about 3 weeks and loved the taste but the next day the same cheese started to get that goaty taste.
Am I missing something in my process? I have made cheddar, colby, monterey jack. All goaty. I have a few Emmenthal aging that I have yet to taste.
Any help or tweaked recipes would be appreciated.

fiddletree

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Re: Goat's Milk Cheeses - Goaty Scent & Flavour
« Reply #11 on: March 22, 2011, 09:16:47 AM »
I know this is a bit old but I could use some advice and I think Oberhasli is the one to help.

I have been trying my hand at raw aged goat cheese. I have raw goat milk available non-stop. So my milk tastes wonderful and lasts for a very long time without getting goaty. I have made many cheese with it and love the mild taste of the Chevre, Feta and Camembert. But the hard cheese all has that nasty taste. It tastes good when young but once it reaches the 60 day mark it starts to get goaty. I have even opened a Havarti at about 3 weeks and loved the taste but the next day the same cheese started to get that goaty taste.
Am I missing something in my process? I have made cheddar, colby, monterey jack. All goaty. I have a few Emmenthal aging that I have yet to taste.
Any help or tweaked recipes would be appreciated.

Again, I'm pretty new at working with goat milk, but from what I am learning at my apprenticeship at a goat farm/cheese maker's, one thing that is very important (that you probably already know) is that you have to treat goat's milk curds very very carefully as they are more delicate, so that the curds don't break too small.  From what I have understood (between apprenticing and books), overworking the curds can make a cheese more goaty (in addition to using milk asap after milking).  Although I don't understand why it would be not goaty and then suddenly turn icky for the same piece of cheese. 

Aged goat cheeses DO have a particular taste, although I wouldn't call it goaty, rather characteristic of goat cheese.  I only know about Toma-type goat cheeses, since that is all that we make here in the Alps from goat cheeses that are aged, but I think that making cheeses that are traditionally out of cow's milk with goat milk will give you something...different.  Might be good, might be gross, but the recipes have to be changed (different amounts of rennet, diff temperatures, etc), and you'll get something different from the cow counterpart.  All of which I'm sure you know.  It could just be that you don't like that particular taste of aged goat cheese, which can be pretty tangy. 

smilingcalico

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Re: Goat's Milk Cheeses - Goaty Scent & Flavour
« Reply #12 on: March 23, 2011, 03:39:08 AM »
I just moved and left a goat dairy and now work at a cow dairy.  I saw in your other post that LB asked some great questions.  We did chevre, and a tomme.  Neither was goaty.  The chevre tasted as clean as cream cheese, and the semi hard cheese could have passed for cow.  We had excellent sanitation during milking, and what I think made a big difference was that the goats didn't eat browse.  They were fed hay, alfalfa, grains, and minerals. Answer back LB'S questions, and I'll bet we can all figure something out.