HTST Milk v. Vat Pasteurized - is the former at all usable, really?

[ArnaudForestier]

I think I know the answer to this already, but am hoping someone has tried this particular dairy's product and made successful cheeses from it.  Basically, through this site, I have come to know of Crystal Ball's milk, the only cream-line, vat-pasteurized milk in our state, to our knowledge.  A quick call around Madison, and it wasn't available (at least not in the smaller coops).  On the other hand, Sassy Cow, which I know of from my wife's work (L'Etoile), produces HTST milk which at least one place uses with pleasure.  Not for cheesemaking, however.

I suspect there is nothing magical about the Sassy Cow that will make it any more useful than any other HTST milk - which is likely pretty poor, correct, esp. without the addition of CaCl?  I ask, as the Crystal Ball, if available, is coming in at something like $6/.5G.

If this belongs in a regional sub-forum, apologies, all - but if any Wisconsinites happen to have info on good cow's and sheep's milk sourcing....well, I can cook some French grub, wink wink nudge nudge...

[ArnaudForestier]

FYI - may have answered at least one query, if anyone from the Midwest hasn't come across them, but Farmer's All Natural Creamery (now called "Kalona Organics") is available in Madison, $3.65 per 1/2G at Willy Street Co-op; vat pasteurized, non-homogenized.

[terry@dairy fab]

I have a customer that makes cheese at the Sassy cow plant , using their milk, and he has won awards at the ACS conference the last few years for his cheese.

[linuxboy]

There is nothing wrong with HTST milk, provided it is processed properly. It is actually better for cheesemaking than batch pasteurized (less denaturation). Where it goes wrong is in commercial bulk milk. That milk is heated to beyond HTST requirements, usually to higher temps or for longer time, to extend shelf life.

Try it out and see how the curd is. Homogenization is the larger problem, it tends to produce poor paste in hard cheese.

[ArnaudForestier]

Thanks, both.  Will give it a go.  Linux, by batch past, this is the same thing as "vat past," is that right?  If so, that's interesting to me.  I would have thought that the localized heat points in an in-line system would have fried proteins more than in a vat.  Can you go into this a bit more?

FYI, if any Madison-area folks are around, did find that Crystal Ball's milk is available at:
PAOLI LOCAL FOODS
6895 Paoli Road
Paoli, WI 53508
(608) 845-FOOD

On the Sassy Cow, I've heard many good things.  I did speak with the plant manager, and he indicated 169F for 18 sec.  As they're a farmstead dairy, the milk is under their control, so they can go with this temp (as opposed to 178-182, which is the practice as I understand it among cooperative dairy concerns - Linux, perhaps this is what you were talking about with the bulk milk high HTST regimen?). 

Very nice guy, unassuming.  I mentioned that from this thread, I had heard of their winning some awards with their cheese; he merely said "oh, yeah, we've won some awards, but we don't pay much attention to that, don't like to do that much bragging...."  I smiled.

He also mentioned that indeed they make cheese off their pasteurized milk, just as terry said; and that they don't use CaCl, though he "couldn't say whether I would need to, or not." 

Good information, and good guy.  Looking forward to visiting with my boy.

So, at the end of the day, two vat pasteurized, non-homogenized sources, and one that seems on the low end of HTST.  I know that at some point, Linux, as you say, you just have to pull the trigger and give it a shot, so will try these out.  Just one more variable to think on, though - given the above, any further thoughts on CaCl in the Sassy Cow?

[ArnaudForestier]

Just wanted to indicate how pleased I am with the Sassy Cow milk results - made several batches now, and all of them have come out quite nicely.  I am going to extend the ripening for the MM100 to 18 hours (previously, gone from 12-15 hours), as I'd like to see what kind of flavor intensity I can get from the longer ripening; that, and back the draining period down from 10 to 9 hours (previously, from 12-9 hours) as I like the slightly softer, wetter cheese that results.  I'd suspect the additional retained whey will give me some of the gentle, lactic sourness I'd like to keep.  (The last batch, at 12 hours ripening and 10 hours draining, was good, but both drier and slightly blander than I'd like). 

[Sailor Con Queso]

Arnaud - what are you making that requires ripening for that long? In general, ripening longer will produce more acid and a sour flavor, so don't overdo it. More ripening doesn't necessarily increase flavor intensity. It's all a balancing act between pH and proteolysis and enzymes and many other factors.

[ArnaudForestier]

Arnaud - what are you making that requires ripening for that long? In general, ripening longer will produce more acid and a sour flavor, so don't overdo it. More ripening doesn't necessarily increase flavor intensity. It's all a balancing act between pH and proteolysis and enzymes and many other factors.

Hi Sailor, poor use of descriptor on my part.  I actually did mean an increased acidity, a better tang to a cow's milk cheese, as I found this batch (the 12 hour ripening) a bit bland.  I should add that a palate comparison with a similar recipe/technique for goat's milk cheese is in my mind, an unfair comparison if looking for more "character" and, I think, tang. 

That said, I think I'm being my usual self, which means impatient as (T&*.  With salt added, I do like it very much and the consensus from many is it's the best run yet.  Just wanting to see what an 18 hour ripening will do.  When I early on used MM101, without any rennet, and actually spoke with the French Canadian rep (kind of wild - he answered the phone "hello," as if it were his home, and not the office for Choozit...very nice, helpful guy), he indicated no issue with going to 18-22 hours. 

This is mostly for a taste comparison.  I have found little textural difference between different ripening periods, and I would guess that is because I'm using a mere 1/5 drop double-strength veggie rennet for a gallon batch.

[Sailor Con Queso]

I still don't know what kind of cheese that you are making.

[ArnaudForestier]

I still don't know what kind of cheese that you are making.

Sorry, just a simple fresh cheese - gallon of cow's milk, 1/8 tsp MM100, 1/5 drop d.s. rennet.  Essentially substituted goat's for cow's milk, using the same recipe, to try and isolate some characteristic differences; and wanted specifically to see how well Sassy Cow worked, given my very helpful discussion with the dairy plant manager himself.