Wine - Using In Cheese Making

[jeremy102674]

Hello. I am very new to cheese making, although i do make my own wine and beer. I actually have a very small vineyard where I grow my grapes. I was on a wine tasting trip with my wife and we had a hard cheese, maybe a white cheddar that was marbled with a very nice red wine. Any ideas on what it could have been or recipes on how to make it?

[Cheese Head]

Welcome, yep, probably either a Cahill's brand marbled cheddar cheese, their most common is porter, sage or wine, or a Derby cheese.

If you Search for both those words you will get several threads with some pictures to identify it and several recipes and peoples tricks and traps. But be warned, it is not a beginners cheese. Have fun!

[jeremy102674]

Thanks, I will try and do some research on those. I made a cheddar this weekend, just prior to pressing I soaked the curds in a cabernet for 10 minutes, drained and then pressed. It looks nice, although the color of the veinging is a light purple instead of a real deep purple.

[dttorun]

I use fortified vine after pressing. Soak for 24 hrs, dry it for 24 hrs and soak again for 24 hrs. You get pretty dark colour. It is not marbled but sure drunken.
Tan

[jeremy102674]

I gave a lot of thought to making a wine reduction to rinse my curds with but I wasn't sure what that would do to the flavor of the wine. I have noticed that the cheese smells "sweeter" than my other cheddars. Not sure why?

[Jessica_H]

I have been planing on doing this as well.

My thought was I was going to make a washed-curd cheese (probably a colby since I already have a Gouda) and use a malbec to wash the curds since it has such an amazing color.

I read somewhere this would work?  Not sure though...I guess we'll see tomorrow 

[jeremy102674]

I was going for a hard cheese with some really nice veining. Mine looks more like its marbled rather than veined. That could be because of the size of my curds prior to washing. I also pressed this cheese at 85 lbs. I will try and get a pic of the round prior to me waxing it. I was also tempted to soak it in wine to form the rind before waxing..

[FRANCOIS]

If you add the wine at the make step it will change flavour and colour of the cheese and wine.  It's best to ripen the cheese first and get a stable biological climate on the rind and interior before adding wine, usually through soaking or spiking.

[jeremy102674]

Will spiking create the veines?

[FRANCOIS]

If you have made a high fat, open texture curd then yes, spiking will create veins as the wine will have places to go.

[Jessica_H]

Just an update...my cheese experiment failed!

I had a huge problem with cracks in the beginning and it was thought that I didn't use enough pressing weight (30lbs).  But I think the wine kept the curd from knitting.

I'd persevere and try again with more weight or a warmer curd except that the cheese isn't great.  It tastes like a wine that's sat out too long.  Too bad!

[mcfly]

Looks like red cabbage

Would there be a problem with a PH imbalance? Would soaking in wine be like like brining and would have to have the same PH as the curd?

[iratherfly]

Jessica, I thought of your problem and had an idea of how to make this cheese after all. Make a wine mix (wine, thickener, sugar, salt - whatever you need). Stabilize it - make sure that it has a pH of about 5.5 or so. (add vinegar to adjust). Then, use a classic recipe for derby sage and throw it in just as you would the sage mix in the Derby.

[Jessica_H]

Oh!!!

I like that!  I have renewed hope 

Do you think the sugar might be a problem though?  Will it be food for the bacteria in odd ways?

Where can I find a recipe for derby sage?  (Or what is derby sage ...is it a cheddar?)

[iratherfly]

Sugar in wine is the opposite of acidity. Wine typically is in the 3.5 pH range which is out there with vinegar; very acidic. Wines from sweeter grape varieties have higher pH which means they have less acid.  The sugar is the main thing that determines the wine acidity. At 3.5pH I wouldn't worry too much about pathogens - not much can live in it that is risky to your cheese. If you add enough sugar to take your pH level to that of your cheese curd (around 5.5) than the wine is now subject to the same pathogens that the cheese is exposed to.  The salt that you put into the cheese should take care of it.  I am speaking theoretically here because I have not tried this (and perhaps one of the many winemakers on this board can correct me if I am wrong).

In fact, the high acidity of wine explains your initial failure. You essentially poured vinegar all over your fresh curd (about 25 times more acidic than curd) and at that point pretty it was doomed and could no longer respond to normal cheesemaking expectations. Processes like the proteolytic activity that modifies the proteins and knots the curd together ceased.

I am looking at the recipe in 200 Easy Homemade Cheese Recipes and the author describes Derby as a moister, quicker-aging cheddar. For the green sage color she suggest infusing 2 cups of boiling water with 1 cup of fresh sage. Wait 30 minute to infuse and cool down and then mix it well with the curd and wait 15 minutes. Do all of that just BEFORE the draining and adding of the salt.  Obviously "sage tea" is much more neutral in acidity than wine.  Forget what I said about thickeners then. You just need to de-acidify the wine to about the 5.5pH range.  (it may not be easy, that's something like 20 times less acidic).