Author Topic: John's Cheese #027 - Camembert #5  (Read 6573 times)

Offline Likesspace

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Re: John's Cheese #027 - Camembert #5
« Reply #15 on: January 11, 2009, 03:30:42 PM »
You know Tea, it could be that I'm keeping mine too cool for the mold formation stage.
Maybe I should leave mine at a warmer temperture until the mold forms and then wrap and move them to our regular household fridge to age.
This is such a new cheese to me that I honestly can't say what the proper procedure is. Looks like some experimentation in my future.

Dave

Offline RRR

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Re: John's Cheese #027 - Camembert #5
« Reply #16 on: January 16, 2009, 07:56:22 AM »
Slip can also occur without any disturbance of the rind. The rind simply slips off the core of the cheese. It has something to do with the composition of the milk. My first Mauers consistently slipped until I started to add Geo.

Offline Tea

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Re: John's Cheese #027 - Camembert #5
« Reply #17 on: January 17, 2009, 04:36:16 PM »
RRR thanks for this.  I think I will invest in some Geo before I still experiementing with this cheese again.

Offline John (CH)

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Re: John's Cheese #027 - Camembert #5
« Reply #18 on: January 22, 2009, 07:12:03 PM »
Catastrophe :-[ :-[ :-[ :-[!!!!

OK maybe not that bad, see above last photo, after 24 days aging, minimal mold growth (my batch #2 had good coat after day #4) due I think to humidity too low and temp too low. Guess I'm going to have to follow recipe which means coming up with a proper Cheese Cave!

Even though I've tried 5 different systems >:(.

Offline Tea

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Re: John's Cheese #027 - Camembert #5
« Reply #19 on: January 24, 2009, 02:52:37 PM »
OK John, I've gone back and had a look at the photo's, but I am missing what the catastrophe is  ???

Is it the brown marks on the cheese or what!  Sorry, feeling a bit dense that I am missing something.

Offline John (CH)

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Re: John's Cheese #027 - Camembert #5
« Reply #20 on: January 24, 2009, 06:18:59 PM »
Sorry, the problem is no normal white bloom then. Since then I stuck it in tupperware (keep the roaches away) in our warm garage and after two days, reasonable warm coat, another two days it should be great. After that, problems as no special Camembert Papers, any advice appreciated, ie tin foil, saran wrap etc.

Offline Tea

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Re: John's Cheese #027 - Camembert #5
« Reply #21 on: January 24, 2009, 06:31:40 PM »
If by saran wrap you mean plastic wrap, then my vote is no, as this doesn't allow for the ammonia gasses to escape as the cheese ripens, and causes off/strong flavours.
Wrap in a paper that will breath, then in alfoil.
HTH

Offline Captain Caprine

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Re: John's Cheese #027 - Camembert #5
« Reply #22 on: January 24, 2009, 08:34:45 PM »
RRR,
The slip you are referring to is is often caused by a proliferation of Geotrichcum sp. that is frequently a result of too high a temp in the cave during ripening and not enough salt.  There are many strains of Geotrichum candidum , some of which contribute to casein proteolysis and ripening and others that are more deleterious in there actions causing the dreaded  Peau De Crapaud (toadskin). The addition of Geotrichum candidum that you buy from a cheese making supply house is a good strain that will outcompete the natural strains that are giving you trouble.
CC
Just once...
I want to make cheese with no border collie hair in it!!!

Offline John (CH)

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Re: John's Cheese #027 - Camembert #5
« Reply #23 on: January 25, 2009, 06:43:10 AM »
Team

Thanks for the excellent thoughts on slip, I have never had that problem but I do have some Geotrichum candidum that I have yet to use.

(Excusez my highschool french: Et voilà!, ma petite Camemberts, ils avoir une beau pelage blanc!

See picture in original post after 2 days in garage.

Offline John (CH)

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Re: John's Cheese #027 - Camembert #5
« Reply #24 on: February 07, 2009, 06:18:50 AM »
Just posted pic of one of these cheese we cut last week for lunch above, not yet ripe enough.

Offline John (CH)

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Re: John's Cheese #027 - Camembert #5
« Reply #25 on: February 08, 2009, 08:53:43 AM »
All, as my first cut Camembert was not ripe enough as aged in household soda pop/beer/wine fridge at ~42F, so I moved the second to he garage in small plastic container to age more rapidly.

After 1 week it did! This morning garage was @ 70 F/21 C, see picture above, sprung a leak.

My key learning's are:
  • Mold development is highly dependant on aging room/Cheese Cave's humidity & temperature; in very dry household fridge for weeks, minimal mold, in own plastic box for higher humidity and in warmer garage, lots of mold in days.
  • Camembert's maturity is highly dependant on aging room/Cheese Cave's temperature; in very cold household fridge for weeks, minimal aging (basically suspended animation, which is how I believe Camembert can be kept in store fridges for ages), in warm garage for 1 week, fully aged!
  • I need a proper Cheese Cave.

Offline Likesspace

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Re: John's Cheese #027 - Camembert #5
« Reply #26 on: February 08, 2009, 07:41:59 PM »
John,
I think I've found (and I think that Tea might agree with this) is that aging slowly is the key with this cheese.
Upon advice from a member on this forum (FineWino) I now put my camemberts into the regular household fridge as soon as I wrap them up. This is usually 10 days after the make.
I opened a few examples of my last batch after, 3, 4 & 6 weeks and each one of them had a very liquid texture near the outer rind while the center was still quite firm.
After seeing one of Tea's posts where she had let one of her cheeses go something like 9 weeks I decided to open my last example at 8 weeks and the texture was surprisingly good throughout the wheel.
Btw....this was aged throughout at approx. 38 - 41 degrees F.
I don't know what would cause the cheese to "firm up" near the outer edges after even more aging but that's exactly what appears to have happened.
I'm considering opening my first cheese (from my next batch) at the 7 week mark and then cracking the other three at the 8, 9 & 10 week mark.
Btw..I've decided this batch will be Cambozola.
After the relative success I saw on the last wheel I cut I want to give this one a try.
Good luck with yours and I'll keep you updated on my next attempt.
I plan on giving this a try next weekend.

Dave

Offline John (CH)

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Re: John's Cheese #027 - Camembert #5
« Reply #27 on: February 08, 2009, 08:08:36 PM »
Dave

Very envious of you going for Cambozola, I should try as well, recipe here.

On Camembert, I agree that you could age longer at colder temperatures, but from the research I've done, others don't take that long:

None of them are talking about 8-10 weeks, but to be fair those guides are probably using unpasteurized milk and the aging process appears to be very temperature and probably a bunch of other criteria dependant. So in summary the question is after mold blossom, should they be aged warm and fast, or cool and slow, or cold and very slowly?

Guess we are all finding out as we open our cheeses and thus get a bigger data base of each others results ;D.

My problem is 1) no wrapping papers (some on order) thus hard to get humidity right for long term for such a small humidity sensitive cheese, and 2) no good cheese cave, I'm currently back to Igloo picnic cooler.

Offline Tea

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Re: John's Cheese #027 - Camembert #5
« Reply #28 on: February 09, 2009, 02:08:35 PM »
Hi John, and at the moment, I have to agree with Dave.  Ripening these at a colder and slower pace, seems to be working better for us homecheese makers, especially when keeping them at what is considered the "optimal" ripening temp is hit and miss. 

I am also wondering if they need to be left for the ten days to form the mould, as mine are definately covered around day 5.  WHen I next make this I am going to put them in the fridge when covered and see if that also makes a difference. 

And yes, for some reason they go runny before firming up again.  I saw that with the St Maure batch, and it really surprised me. 

Anyway still got a long way to go before I really understand what is going on in these cheeses.

Offline John (CH)

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Re: John's Cheese #027 - Camembert #5
« Reply #29 on: February 09, 2009, 06:16:23 PM »
OK, for dinner dessert, let this batch Camembert #2 (that leaked) rise to room temp and cut through middle, found firm except around edge and little around on top and bottom. The cut near edge and much moister.

Tastes great, not strong Camembert flavour, rind a little thick, probably as I've let this one dry out too much.

See picture #12 above.