Author Topic: DYI $100 Digital Cheese Vat / Sous Vide Machine! (Photos) - A full guide!  (Read 18503 times)

Offline DETERMINED

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Re: DYI $100 Digital Cheese Vat / Sous Vide Machine! (Photos) - A full guide!
« Reply #15 on: January 09, 2011, 06:42:13 PM »
iratherfly   No I have not cooked Sous Vide before.
 Interesting information on the link you posted.
Quote from the link;

"[So if you hold a roast beef that has been vacuum packed in a Foodsaver bag for five or six hours, there should be no question that all of the common bacteria has been inactivated, and that amount of time at 130 degrees F should be sufficient to inactivate 99.9 percent of all botulism toxin molecules (not there should be any in a fresh piece of meat, of course!)

However, sous vide temperatures are not enough to kill bacterial spores, in particular C. botulinum, which is responsible for botulism. This requires temperatures far in excess of boiling water at sea level. For example, home canning protocols recommend holding the food product at 250 degrees F for at least 15 minutes. This is an issue in the restaurant business because very often food would be cooked sous vide, and then stored in the vacuum sealed bags for potentially weeks (yes, you could be eating an extremely expensive meal at a top-end French restaurant that had been cooked several weeks ago, and reheated just before serving; yummy, no?). If the food packages aren’t cooled quickly enough, and then allowed to warm to the danger zone, it’s possible that in the anerobic environment the C. botulinum spores could germinate and then start producing toxin. But, if you are cooking home sous vide where you are serving the food right after it has been cooked, this shouldn’t be a concern.]"

I did not realize that a lower temp over a longer period would have the same effect as the higher temperature on the toxins.
For a meal you are going to eat right away I can see it working fine but storage for any amount of time under household conditions could be hazardous.

In sausage making the goal is to eliminate the botulism not just the toxins for a short term.
Dave
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Offline iratherfly

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Re: DYI $100 Digital Cheese Vat / Sous Vide Machine! (Photos) - A full guide!
« Reply #16 on: January 10, 2011, 12:08:15 AM »
Yes, I understand the process, I have been curing meats too.

The thing is that no matter how you look at it, with the pasteurization that happens in sous vide -everything is safer!

True, it doesn't remove botulism spores - but the same can be said for cooking steak in a grill or a pan. That is unless you burn everything to a 'very well done' - but who wants that?  As long as you want a nice medium steak which is 140F in the center, you will not remove the spores, no matter what.  Sous vide however is safer because it does kill the E.Coli and Salmonela which CANNOT be killed in standard cooking of a medium steak.

But also, this isn't a factory; I cook dinner not to pack it and have it traveled thousands of miles and get handled by 30 people for a week before it gets to someone's kitchen. I cook at home for immediate consumption, my kitchen is clean and I use ingredients that are high quality from reputable sources. It's a matter of being responsible and this should never have botulism, E.Coli or Salmonella in it. In the wrong hand however, even the freshest ingredient can be turned into a disease agent. But I also think there is way too much germophobia going around in this country.

Offline Sailor Con Queso

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Re: DYI $100 Digital Cheese Vat / Sous Vide Machine! (Photos) - A full guide!
« Reply #17 on: January 10, 2011, 02:22:26 PM »
Botulism spores are not a problem unless you are storing long term.

There are basically 2 kinds of food poisoning.

1- The toxin is created before being ingested - like botulism. Even if the spores multiply, the toxin is easily destroyed with adequate cooking.

2- The organism creates the toxin in your body after being ingested - like E. coli.
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Offline iratherfly

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Re: DYI $100 Digital Cheese Vat / Sous Vide Machine! (Photos) - A full guide!
« Reply #18 on: January 10, 2011, 02:34:53 PM »
Thanks Sailor, that's exactly why I think sous vide is so safe!

Offline Myrrh

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Re: DYI $100 Digital Cheese Vat / Sous Vide Machine! (Photos) - A full guide!
« Reply #19 on: January 10, 2011, 02:59:08 PM »
I've seen some discussions of doing something similar with an electric chafing pan. Do any of you smart creative folk have any thoughts as to the advantages or disadvantages of using a electric roaster versus an electric chafing dish for this sort of set-up?

Love the discussion. Hopefully I'll take the plunge soon and get away from using a pot on the stove. 2 gallons of milk at a time is so little cheese for the effort.


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Offline iratherfly

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Re: DYI $100 Digital Cheese Vat / Sous Vide Machine! (Photos) - A full guide!
« Reply #20 on: January 10, 2011, 03:11:50 PM »
Hey, 2 gallons can give you a bunch of Camemberts, a fleet of Crottins, a flock of Saint Marcellin or an army of Cabecu! It's all in how you look at it :)

I think chafing dish is almost the same. Actually it is possible it has an even gentler heat. The only thing I would watch out for is -where is the heating element located at? and, can you get a single large tray or is it buffet style with all these tiny hot food compartments?

Offline Buck47

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Re: DYI $100 Digital Cheese Vat / Sous Vide Machine! (Photos) - A full guide!
« Reply #21 on: January 10, 2011, 03:16:37 PM »
Hey Myrrh,

I've been pleased with the turkey roaster, I have found the ability to raise and hold a temp very easy. Also the rectangular shape is easy for me to work with.

That said, an 18 qt. size will only make one 6-7inch cheese. That's fine for now, however my goal is to make 12 inch wheels. So I'm starting to look at the same design hence a large chafing style vat.

One thing nice about the turkey roaster is it heats from the sides. Whereas a chafing/waterbath heater heats from the bottom.

I have found I can make an 8inch Tomme from four gallons of Raw milk in the roaster.

Hope this has been of help. Regards: john
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Offline iratherfly

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Re: DYI $100 Digital Cheese Vat / Sous Vide Machine! (Photos) - A full guide!
« Reply #22 on: January 11, 2011, 10:43:58 AM »
*** UPDATE #1 ***
Please enjoy my friends Lisa and Abe description of the build on their sous vide blog:
http://qandabe.com/2011/01/10/100-diy-cheese-vatsous-vide-circulating-bath/

*** UPDATE #2 ***
Now also posted on Make Magazine blog:
http://makeprojects.com/Project/Digital-cheese-vat-sous-vide-circulating-bath/512/1

More photos, comments, technical details and connection diagrams on those posts!
« Last Edit: January 11, 2011, 02:02:12 PM by iratherfly »

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Re: DYI $100 Digital Cheese Vat / Sous Vide Machine! (Photos) - A full guide!
« Reply #23 on: January 11, 2011, 05:53:14 PM »
Now that's a weekend project I'm looking forward to. Thanks iratherfly! One cheese for you  ;D
- Eric

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Re: DYI $100 Digital Cheese Vat / Sous Vide Machine! (Photos) - A full guide!
« Reply #24 on: January 11, 2011, 06:03:39 PM »
My stuff is due to arrive this week, and combing for a cheap roaster.  One less thing crowding my wife in our kitchen...one more thing crowding everywhere else. ;D

Sincerely, many thanks iratherfly, a great resource. :)
- Paul


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Offline Bishop

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Re: DYI $100 Digital Cheese Vat / Sous Vide Machine! (Photos) - A full guide!
« Reply #25 on: January 12, 2011, 02:06:32 AM »
Great photo's
Great instructions
Great Idea
Thanks for sharing

I agree with spoons - thumbs up
Cutting, grating, sampling, storing, aging, washing, spraying, salting, ashing, turning, drying, brining, wrapping, humidify, there are many many things a cheesemaker can do with a box (by Iratherfly)

Offline iratherfly

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Re: DYI $100 Digital Cheese Vat / Sous Vide Machine! (Photos) - A full guide!
« Reply #26 on: January 12, 2011, 03:10:33 AM »
Woo hoo! Thanks for all the cheese you guys!  Please refer to the other two blog posts I mentioned in my previous post for connection instructions and more photos. Also please read my comments in both blogs about my small revision afterthought.

Send me a message or share here any questions or problems you may have!

Offline KosherBaker

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Re: DYI $100 Digital Cheese Vat / Sous Vide Machine! (Photos) - A full guide!
« Reply #27 on: January 12, 2011, 11:34:18 PM »
Yoav awesome job.
However, sous vide temperatures are not enough to kill bacterial spores, in particular C. botulinum, which is responsible for botulism.
Dave, my understanding is that vacuuming something lowers its boiling temperature significantly, and that this is in fact the principle that makes sous vide cooking so unique. In fact, you can sometimes witness a liquid boiling, at room temperature, as it is being vacuum sealed. :)
Although, I can't find any info on what effect, this has on any harmful bacteria.
Rudy

Offline DETERMINED

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Re: DYI $100 Digital Cheese Vat / Sous Vide Machine! (Photos) - A full guide!
« Reply #28 on: January 13, 2011, 02:33:35 PM »
KosherBaker
 Atmospheric pressure {or vacuum}has effect on what temperature water boils at
for example at sea level water boils at 212 f I live at an elevation of app 2000 feet so my water theoretically boils at 208 f.
When I use my pressure cooker for example I must run it at a higher pressure than somebody at sea level would to compensate for the altitude so that I can obtain the 240 f required to kill any botulism spores in canned food.
Many strains of bacteria are lab cultured {cheese cultures}and or stored in vacuum vials {cattle vaccine}
I do not believe the vacuum under these conditions has any negative effect on the bacteria or toxins.  If anything the vacuum creates an anaerobic environment in which bacteria such as botulism thrives.
It is only the high temperatures or as pointed out by iratherfly sustained lower temperatures utilized in sous vide that destroy the toxins when cooking is the only control method being used.
 Botulism,E-coli,salmonella are becoming less of a concern with improved quality of the food supply but many people still eat wild meat that does not meet the same standards,not to mention things like trichinosis.
All I am trying to say is sous vide likely can produce fantastic results but proper training in the process should be mandatory,
Dave
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Re: DYI $100 Digital Cheese Vat / Sous Vide Machine! (Photos) - A full guide!
« Reply #29 on: January 22, 2011, 10:35:55 AM »
Just something additional to toss in here.  My neighbor deals in telecom, and is pretty at home in electronic stuff.  After seeing where I was going with this, based on the design, he had another thought, and that was to leave the roaster intact, and put the guts of the PID, SSR, before the roaster, in a simple plug outlet; so that the plug of the roaster plugs into the controlling assembly.  This way, no "joints" where stuff is split inside the roaster, the whole thing is wired 16 ga. (which is the ga. of the roaster power, anyway), and so heating up is less of an issue.  He's also got a nifty junction box ready-made, and he's cutting it out for the PID, so it should be pretty high and tight when I'm through.  Anyway, FYI.
- Paul