Author Topic: Procedure modifications to make a cheese extra-creamy?  (Read 953 times)

Offline patxarana

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Procedure modifications to make a cheese extra-creamy?
« on: January 12, 2011, 04:20:30 AM »
Would anyone have some advice on how to make a very very creamy cheese that does not involve adding extra cream? Any procedure modifications or tips that may help? Creamy as in havarti or port salut. Thanks in advance:-)


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Offline linuxboy

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Re: Procedure modifications to make a cheese extra-creamy?
« Reply #1 on: January 12, 2011, 11:10:50 AM »
Yes, there are three mechanisms for this. Two, really, and the third is more of a method to help with one of the two:

1) Take away the calcium, by draining at a rather low pH. Or wash the calcium away with water from the curds, like for colby.
2) ensure a high level of proteolysis in the paste by using molds that ripen (like you do in port salut). And another way to do this is to use a high moisture content in the curds. It speeds up the rate that protein break apart and will give you this soft type paste.
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Offline patxarana

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Re: Procedure modifications to make a cheese extra-creamy?
« Reply #2 on: January 12, 2011, 12:21:35 PM »
Thanks for the useful advice! I will try to do that, it makes sense if more moisture is retained more proteolysis should happen, more coagulant retained..
I wonder would a washing step and adding less volume of water back in affect creaminess in any way? what is the reason for that step in havarti or port salut? I found that in both recipes. I've done washed curd cheeses before, but always added the totality of water back in, not just part of it, so I wonder what the effect of that is  ^-^
Thanks!

Offline linuxboy

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Re: Procedure modifications to make a cheese extra-creamy?
« Reply #3 on: January 12, 2011, 12:27:23 PM »
Quote
it makes sense if more moisture is retained more proteolysis should happen, more coagulant retained..

No, this is not what happens. What happens is that the speed of protein-protein interaction is accelerated by the presence of water. The rennin does influence proteolysis, but no more is retained, and it's not the catalyst to accelerate protein catabolysis.

Quote
what is the reason for that step in havarti or port salut?
Water wash of drained curd is to remove calcium. Difference in water depends on the difference amount. Drastic difference in volume will make a slight difference. But the ionic differential between water and curd in terms of calcium is so great that it doesn't take much water to leach out the calcium.

Quote
I've done washed curd cheeses before
Washing curds in a gouda type where you remove whey is different from washing drained curds. In gouda, it is about lactose removal, the calcium balances out. In drained curd, it is about calcium removal.

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Offline patxarana

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Re: Procedure modifications to make a cheese extra-creamy?
« Reply #4 on: January 12, 2011, 02:47:16 PM »
Thanks for the reply, but I am a little lost now... So in Havarti-type cheese, you wash the curd AFTER draining? I had the idea that it would be before. So, as I understand now, washing curd after draining will help get rid of some calcium?

See http://cheeseforum.org/forum/index.php/topic,1934.msg41405.html#msg41405 MArgaret Moris recipe and Danlac's. It seems as you remove some whey and then add some water (about half) back, and then draining into moulds after cooking with the added water.

Sorry about that, im just a little confused.... definitely don't wanna mix up washing curd with washing drained curd. So how should I do it with Havarti then?

Thanks


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Offline linuxboy

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Re: Procedure modifications to make a cheese extra-creamy?
« Reply #5 on: January 12, 2011, 02:58:02 PM »
There are many ways to make Havarti. In most methods, you drain off a lot of whey... something like 50-70%, or all of it, and then add it back in the form of water. If you remove that much, and add water, it will change the calcium and pH makeup. with gouda, the drain target is less, more like 30-35%, so the goal is lactose removal, although it also washes the curd. There's this continuum in terms of how much the curds are washed and how much calcium you remove.

Sorry for the confusion... there are many approaches to it. I was trying to make a distinction between various ways to wash curds in water to point out that is leads to different levels of calcium loss.
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