Epoisse culture and drying?

[Helen]

Oude Kaas,  Annie,

Thank you so much for your interest  in my epoisses. I apologize for this belated response; life has been unusually busy of late.

I wish I could say that my epoisses are doing well. They were doing quite well until three days ago when they were the object of a blue attack.  :'(

To start at the beginning, I followed Oude Kaas' recipe to the T. I took care of air-drying for a long time in order to avoid the dreaded slip skin. I used camembert molds to shape them and to my surprise, they did not lose as much height as I expected. Next time, I will make sure to use more molds.

I started washing them with brine with a pinch of b.linens. I also added growing concentration of grappa to the brine (could not find Marc de Bourgogne where I live).
They were quite fragile (still are actually) in the sense that as I was washing them, the cheese seemed to spread around a little bit. They did not hold very well. B.linens was slow to show but it is often the case for me. Problem was my washing the rind tended to tear into it. Color on one of them is a good orange and the rind is quite gnarly. Overall, they look like epoisse (blue notwithstanding) except for one of them which has not developed a rind in spite of all my efforts.

A month into aging, they have started liquifying. Next time, I need to find a container for them as they are very very difficult to handle.

I have a Fourme aging in a separate box in my wine fridge. While I am very careful with never handling the blue before the rest of my cheese (I usually turn and air the blues on a different day), I must have done something wrong recently without realizing it.

My epoisses are now sporting blue spots all over. I tried washing them with saturated brine but the delicate nature of the rind and the liquified state of the epoisses makes it impossible for me to get rid of it. A radical solution would be to scrap the epoisses skin but I think it is not worth it.

Overall, a good learning process... Epoisses were looking good, smelling amazing and liquifying as they should. Looks like a good recipe to me. I will try again in the next coming months. Cheesemaking is put on hold for the next 4 weeks as I will be going back to France for vacations... Can't leave newborns unsupervised in the cave 

Hope that helps!

 

[arkc]

Helen,

I don't suppose you have a current photo of them?  Not for the blue spots, for the shape.
I have been struggling with them for months.  If one thing isn't wrong, it's another.

There are not a lot of folks out there that have done them successfully.  I spoke with Peter
Dixon, (he is available on a contract basis) and he gave me some help, but it is still soooo
difficult.  I am actually trying to get them to look like the real thing.  Heinenellie (sp?)
has some but they don't look like what I purchase at our high end Fromageries in San
Francisco.  I have come the closest this time....Close, but no cigar! 

And by the way, I haven't seen the Oude Kass recipe.  Guess I'll do a search.

Do you have pics?

annie

[iratherfly]

I find that they are different from formargerie to formargerie. Try Whole Foods, they sell a good one.

[linuxboy]

The third (Plantarum), I couldn't find anywhere other that
in the Kefir.  I wonder if he (Pav) knows where to acquire it.

IMHO, it's missing the point to actually add in plantarum. This is the indigenous bacillus in the Epoisses area. If you really want,  Danisco has it, but I don't think in a single strain. Otherwise, use raw milk and you should be close.

I also added growing concentration of grappa to the brine (could not find Marc de Bourgogne where I live).

Epoisses is washed with the marc right before shipping. It's only at the very end, to perfume the rind. You don't wash with wine throughout ripening. I'm not an epoisses expert, however. Just how I was told it's done. Might work with other ways, of course. Might even be better.

[iratherfly]

Actually the proper affinage of Eppoises is to use a progression of washes that starts with a bacterial brine and it then gets more and more Marc added to is in every wash, until the last wash, where it reaches the level of pure Marc.  Grappa is a great alternative to Marc. Easier to find in the US, it's really just the Italian version of the same thing.

[linuxboy]

Ah, I see. Makes sense. They start with a wine/brine mix, right? A sort of morge? And then keep adding marc? Not much experience making this cheese, only going by bits and pieces of recollection.

[iratherfly]

Exactly, very low % of Marc in the beginning, then every time it gets higher until it hits 100% or close. It's a fascinating affinage!

[arkc]

Helen,

I definitely need to speak to someone who has made these darlings.  Mine are not holding their
shape. The  Heinenellie (sp? again) ones  are much more well formed and beautiful.  Mine look, by
comparison, drunken cousins!!!  Do you know anyone who has experience.

annie

[Helen]

Annie -

Regarding the size, please see below the AOC specifications:

There are two Epoisses sizes; both cylindar.
- The small Epoisses (250 to 350 grams) has to have a diameter between 95 and 115 Millimeters, height between 30 and 45 Millimeters
- A big Epoisses (700 to 1100 grams) has to have a diameter between 165 and 190 Millimeters; same height.

Mine were definitely too tall. I will post a picture tonight if I can find my memory card.

Regarding the Epoisses not holding shape, I would recommend draining and draining again. I left mine to drain for 4 days. I cannot see another explanation.

[arkc]

I think you're right.  This is what PD also said.....

And thanks for the AOC specs.  I guess mine aren't too small.  I've just always
bought (after taking out a loan on my home) the larger ones.

I will be trying again (draining more) this Wed.  Wish me luck.

annie

[iratherfly]

May luck be with you!

By the way, if you are using Jersey milk you may want to drain it longer. All this fat stops the whey from draining and gives you a snuggly soft cheese. It is semi-lactic after all.

I love the concept of taking a home loan for an Epoisses. In this market just don't get stuck with the mortgage being worth more than your Epoisses!

[arkc]

Very cute!

annie

[arkc]

Oude Kaas, (Jos) and Helen

Jos - On your blog you say that you just ladled the curd into molds.  Did you have any
thoughts about pre-draining in a bag or cloth....

I am starting another batch tomorrow and am thinking of pre-draining.

Helen - where are the photos?  Yes I know, I'm hounding you!

annie

[Oude Kaas]

I don't see the need. The curd should drain fine in the moulds given that there are sufficient holes. If you are afraid of to much moisture from insufficient draining, simply drain a little longer. If you can flip the cheeses without damaging them, they should be drained enough at one side.
After draining, while salting, be sure to dry the cheeses under a fan. This, imho, is much more important I have found.

[Helen]

I ladled and drained. It worked just fine for me

Pictures will be uploaded tonight! What a suspense for such ugly looking cheeses