Epoisse culture and drying?

[Oude Kaas]

Sorry, misread it. I am upstate NY and keep in contact with a smartfone with a 3 inch screen. Sometimes I surprise myself that I can even read it. Anyway, I read soft and missed the hockey puck.
I would put it at room temperature for a while and see what happens. With a while I mean a day, maybe two. Should smell up your house nicely.

[iratherfly]

Are you aging it in a cold temp now? If so, and it is firm even in room temperature then move it to a cave at around 50F-55F, it should soften up within 24-48 hours.

By the way, I am really happy with my results, but I want something a bit more tart and less on the fatty grassy side. I am going to do something really interesting: pre-ripen the milk before the next batch. I am starting tonight

[arkc]

I moved them to the 57/58 degree chiller two days ago.  I'll give it a couple more days
then move them into my kitch which is usually about 69 degrees.  I have been 'airing'
all of my stinky types once or twice a week.  I can smell them from upstairs!!!

And I have noticed something interesting over the last couple of months...All
of my BL types (Munster, Taleggio, Epoisses) were not always coloring up
correctly until I started putting them together (in same aging box) with a
cheese that was already very colorful.  At first I had a second batch of Epoisses
types that were getting no color.  Then I started storing them with the older
batch that had developed much color.  They were made exactly the same. 
Don't know why one batch got color and the next not...But, when I started
storing them together, they turned a lovely color also.

They are all dark, except for the Taleggios, which I believe are supposed to
be a little lighter and almost rosy.

Well at least my Munsters and Tallegios are softening nicely.  I will be happy with
that ....(That's a lie!)

annie

[iratherfly]

That makes total sense Annie. Cheese, as you know love friends!

In cheese shops and affinage facilities they do the same. All washed rind cheese is in the same cave and all bloomy is in another cave. They fill the space with microorganisms and help each other grow.  Also the affinage process itself - the affineur rubs and turns them one after the other and his/her hands transfers mixed bacterium and help new cheese absorb the heirloom bacterium of neighboring cheese this way.  This is usually assisted by wood shelving and cellar or cave walls of stone, brick or rock.

whether or not your cheese grow rind bacteria at the same timing when your process is similar has a lot to do with variables such as temperature and humidity changes, what else is in the cave, the changes in milk from one batch to another, the efficiency of yeasts and geo in acidifying the surface, slight differences in the makeup of your wash and how vigorously (or not) to you rub the cheese when you wash it.  Having them in the cave together would most definetely help them even out and be more identical to one another.

I have been experimenting with a new way to air the cheese while in the cave.  I think that after 3 weeks I can say with certainty that my new convection system has seriously improved the results of the washed rind cheese. (in fact, it improved the results of all of the cheese in the cave).  The $6.99 secret? An aquarium pump!

[ArnaudForestier]

I have been experimenting with a new way to air the cheese while in the cave.  I think that after 3 weeks I can say with certainty that my new convection system has seriously improved the results of the washed rind cheese. (in fact, it improved the results of all of the cheese in the cave).  The $6.99 secret? An aquarium pump!

Just some food for thought - I had raised this a while back:

The thought of stressing my friends stresses me out.  If not air exchange, at least the notion of a fresh air supply - an aquarium pump driving filtered air, into the chamber?  What do you think?

Pav hit on the difficulty of introducing this air, while maintaining proper RH and temps:

If you use a pump, you need to equalize the temp and humidity ASAP because chances are that pump will be pushing in dry, warmer air. Also no good. And you also need to slow the air down because you can't have rapid air movement, cheese will not age properly, and rind will not develop properly.

Yoav, you mentioned then:

You need to focus on circulating the air rather than bringing new filtered air.

You feel differently now.  I've always wanted to go the a. pump route, but did shy away based on the above.  Would you mind going into your reasoning, now?

[iratherfly]

Wow Paul, great memory!

Well, it's really quite simple.  The cheese needs both fresh air to stabilize and circulating the existing air to maintain a good coverage of microorganisms on the cheese and throughout the cave.  The question is at what balance.  If you push tons of fresh air to the cave you will have almost no residual microorganisms situating on your cheese because pumping fresh air in means that the air with the microorganisms is pushed out.  On the other hand, if you just circulate the existing air you keep moving around the same microorganisms the cheese won't get the dosage of fresh air that it needs to stabilize and help B.Linens and other bacterium grow.

It is therefore clear that you need to combine these two attitudes in some fashion.  I did some trial and error; circulating air inside with the pump, opening and closing the door, pumping fresh air with or without exit, etc. (The only reason that I haven't posted it here yet is because I am still trying some variations, though it really seems I found the magic balance).

So this is what I am doing now which works very well for me:

• I am using a small aquarium air pump with a flow in the neighborhood of 70 Liters/hour (size that work for a 25 Gal aquarium)
• This is an external pump which uses a silicone hose to output the air through
• The silicone hose is inserted to the door seal of the cave and points downward. It releases the air in between the top and bottom of the very top shelf, where just below is are the partially opened aging containers of the washed rind cheese so they absorb whatever air moves around but it's far enough so that it doesn't directly inject the boxes with fresh air. Just below
• When shutting the cave door, the door seal seem to bend over the silicone hose, leaving an open gap between the door and the body of the cave.  While this is good for letting air out, it lets too much air out. I cover it with folded paper towel leaving only a tiny opening at the end. You can feel the air coming out of it after about 30 minutes that the door has been shut and pump was on

To date this seems to give me the best balance between fresh air and circulating ambient air. The cheese is very happy. I think one of the nicer effects of this was that humidity in the cave rose by 10% and condensation near the cooling elements has disapeared altogether. That means that the micro-convection created by this little hose is enough to enable moisture to suspend in the air and not land and turn into beads of water in dry air.

[ArnaudForestier]

Wow, great, Yoav - thanks for the details.  I'm intrigued by this  - in particular, with my Beaufort cave, nudging it towards 98%RH, getting the moisture into the air as opposed to gathering on all surfaces.  Thanks again - great post.

[iratherfly]

What's your current RH? How large is the cave?

[ArnaudForestier]

The "caves" are regular refrigerators; both at 49-51; the beaufort cave hovers 91-93%.

[iratherfly]

A bit cold but nice RH for a fridge. Do you use aging containers or humidify the fridge?  What's the target aging temp for a Beaufort? Does it have a hot period to build proprionic? I am really not a Beaufort expert

[ArnaudForestier]

On the temp, Beaufort AOC calls for an aging "at a temperature below 10C."  It makes sense, to me - long, slow aging.  On the hot build, I think I saw Sailor discuss this somewhere, to finesse the propionic development.  Relative to its kin (comte, emmental grand cru), the propionic is quite muted - .05-.2% propionic acid, compared to 1-4% for comte, 3-4.5% for emmental grand cru.

I only use aging containers for my reblochons - the Beauforts are in the open cave, and in the other cave, I have all tomme grise.

[iratherfly]

Wow, below 10C is pretty cool!  Yes, the warm aging stage wakes up the shermanii after the cheese has enough lactate in it to for the shermanii to consume. In Emental is develop eyes but in other cheese it just gives it that signature nutty sweetness. Yumm

[ANDREARK]

Pav,

I've made several batches of the Epoisses types since I asked you about the correct
combination of cultures. 

I want to ask a different question now.  I use a very high fat Jersey and I'm not sure
that it is the right thing to use.  Somewhere on this site,  you mention skimming or
using part skim milk to reduce tha fat.  Would it be better to use a little lower fat milk
for this semi-lactic type?

chasermom  (cm)