Author Topic: Monterey Jack pH Markers?  (Read 5086 times)

Melle12

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Monterey Jack pH Markers?
« on: January 28, 2011, 03:21:44 PM »
Good morning,

After 6 months of cheese making, I will finally be receiving my pH meter (Extech 110) today, and I am hoping this will help with some of my cheese inconsistencies (why oh why I waited so long).  I have yet to have an edible Monterey, so I think that is where I will begin, and I have checked this board along with Rick Robinson's site for a pH guide. 

Here is what I have:
pH should be 6.2 or higher to begin whey pour off
pH should be 5.9-6.0 to begin salting
pH should be 5.5 when the cheese is done pressing and ready for drying/aging

Are there any other helpful markers I'm missing- for example, when to add rennet?

Thanks for all your help (as usual) :-) Melle12

linuxboy

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Re: Monterey Jack pH Markers?
« Reply #1 on: January 28, 2011, 03:43:40 PM »
For what type of culture?

Melle12

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Re: Monterey Jack pH Markers?
« Reply #2 on: January 28, 2011, 04:35:14 PM »
Hello again Linuxboy,

I would be using the mesophilic culture (direct set from New England Cheese) on raw cows milk along with liquid rennet. 

Thanks,
Melanie

Melle12

  • Guest
Re: Monterey Jack pH Markers?
« Reply #3 on: January 29, 2011, 08:25:24 PM »
Bummer- I guess I am on my own for this, and I'll keep my fingers crossed for better than my first 6 months of attempts (can't be worse :-).  Starting pH seems high for what I have read (6.9?).

Sailor Con Queso

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Re: Monterey Jack pH Markers?
« Reply #4 on: January 29, 2011, 09:45:06 PM »
Starting pH of 6.9 is REALLY high. Milk should be around 6.65. That reading means one of 2 things.

1- Your meter needs to be calibrated or
2- The milk is bad

pH markers are a personal touch and not an exact science and are just one of many visual clues in the process. The entire process is way more important than just pH, so many experienced cheesemakers are reluctant to share specific pH "targets". Your starting pH of 6.9 is a good example of readings that would be destined to be incorrect throughout the entire make. There often is no right or wrong, just a matter of style and preference. You can alter the entire character of a cheese by changing things along the way. Drain early and your cheese will be higher pH. Drain later and it will be more acidic and sharp. pH and instincts helps you know what's going on so you can make good decisions. It's like grilling a steak. Rare, Medium, Well. Which one is "correct"?

I do a lot of Caerphillys. Traditionally this cheese is eatten young when it is really tart and acidic. Age it for 90 days and it's an entirely different cheese. Just a matter of style and preference.

That being said, here are my pH markers for Monterey Jack. The most important is pH at hooping, but it's just a personal preference. Everything leading up to that is just academic observation.

At Rennet - 6.5
At Curd Cut - 6.45
After Cooking - 6.3
At Draining - 6.2-6.3
At Hooping - 5.4
After Pressing - 5.1-5.4

Note that the pH reading at hooping is taken directly from the curd and NOT the whey.

Melle12

  • Guest
Re: Monterey Jack pH Markers?
« Reply #5 on: January 29, 2011, 10:08:13 PM »
Wow-  Thanks Sailor!
I calibrated yesterday for prep today using 7 and 4 solution, and I'm taking pH by stirring then inserting the meter into the top of the 2 gallons (so it's getting maybe 2" of depth)- could this be a problem?
I added culture, waited 30 minutes, and pH had dropped to 6.75, so added the diluted rennet and pH appears to have risen to 6.8 at cut.  I'm not sure what could cause my milk to be "bad," but this is the first time I've had a pH reading for reference.  I have had better luck with traditional cheddar, gouda, and machego...farmhouse cheddar and monterery...not so much.
Your help is more than appreciated- :-)

linuxboy

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Re: Monterey Jack pH Markers?
« Reply #6 on: January 29, 2011, 11:25:21 PM »
Sorry, was traveling. Mine are the same, except I drain at 6.1-6.2. Personal preference. My post press tends to be on the lower end, at 5.0-5.1.

Melle12

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Re: Monterey Jack pH Markers?
« Reply #7 on: January 29, 2011, 11:47:30 PM »
That's OK- I really appreciate all the expertise from both you and Sailor...thanks thanks!- I'm just trying to fix 6 months worth off funny flavored cheese in one batch...a terrible idea I imagine.

So, at this point, I have gotten the curds/whey up to 100 degrees and kept it there for 40 minutes and the pH is still reading 6.7.  I may not be able to wait for this response, but so I know going forward...do I keep "cooking" at 100 until I get the pH down or...what would you suggest?  Is it a lost batch and perhaps a bad batch of milk, which of course makes me wonder.  I use two local dairies (very local...like next door) to get raw and relatively fresh (depending on my cheese making within the week) cows milk.

Thanks again Sailor and Linuxboy :-) Cheers

Sailor Con Queso

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Re: Monterey Jack pH Markers?
« Reply #8 on: January 30, 2011, 01:50:19 AM »
If your meter is calibrated properly, I just wouldn't trust that milk. If you are using pH targets for a make, then yes, you have to wait for the proper acidity before moving on to the next step - that's the point. However, your starting pH was so far off of normal that I wouldn't trust any readings during the make.

I don't start a make without first testing the milk so I know if anything is off. This is especially true with raw milk. Raw milk and store bought pasteurized both contain bacteria. Yes, even after pasteurization. That's why store bought milk will spoil even if it's not opened. If those bacterial populations increase, they will start producing acid and the milk will ultimately curdle. Lactic bacteria in raw milk are natural and generally good. The residual bacteria in store bought are spoilage bacteria, not natural lactic bacteria. That's why spoiled store bought stinks and is undrinkable. So a little drop in pH from raw is still workable. A drop from store bought is not. My personal standards are 6.55 for pasteurized or 6.5 for raw. If the pH is lower than these, I reject the milk.

Going the other direction, a high pH (and somatic cell count) can be an indication of an infection in the cow, goat, or sheep. Somatic cell count (SCC) is one of indicators of the quality of milk. Somatic cells are leukocytes (white blood cells). The number of somatic cells increases in response to pathogenic bacteria like Staphylococcus aureus, a cause of mastitis. This raises the pH of the milk. So again, my personal tolerance is a pH of 6.75.

Since you are using raw milk, if you are confidant of your readings I would definitely discuss the high pH with your source.

Melle12

  • Guest
Re: Monterey Jack pH Markers?
« Reply #9 on: January 30, 2011, 02:54:27 PM »
Thanks again Sailor- I am glad to have the extra layer of measurement as I work through my cheese and your responses (and other posts from you I have seen on this site) help to better understand rather than just go through the steps.  As a first pH measured cheese, I am not sure how this one will pan out- I wasn't able to get the pH down enough in cooking and eventually I settled for just taking the measurements and moving through the steps.  This morning, I removed it from the press and quartered it for aging- at that time it was hard to get a good reading on the surface, but it seemed to stabilize around a pH of 5.0.  Again, very confusing after being so high during the make and now being below target.  I will figure this cheese thing out or fill the fridge trying :-)

Melle12

  • Guest
Re: Monterey Jack pH Markers?
« Reply #10 on: February 26, 2011, 07:25:46 PM »
Hello again,

I just thought a would provide a little update- I haven't made any cheese since the above monterey, but I finally had the time today and broke out the Extech pH110 for a batch of cheddar.  I quickly realized that the problem was not the milk, but the meter- I calibrate it, and it immediately uncalibrates itself, so I have contacted Extech in hopes of a replacement...what a bummer, but at least I know.

Cheers,
Melle

tananaBrian

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Re: Monterey Jack pH Markers?
« Reply #11 on: March 05, 2011, 06:21:00 PM »
It's interesting ...if you google the PH110, you find that other folks are very happy with it, e.g. wine makers and such.  The only place that I have seen where some folks have trouble with this meter, including me, is here in the world of cheesemaking ...Oh well.  I wrote to ExTech about my problems ...readings that drift and inaccurate temperatures.

Brian


Melle12

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Re: Monterey Jack pH Markers?
« Reply #12 on: March 05, 2011, 07:24:08 PM »
Hi,

Once I was able to get in touch with Extech- they promptly sent me a replacement and told me to toss my original purchase.  I am guessing they had a bad batch or a consistent problem because they didn't ask many questions once I clearly stated the problem, and I'm hoping that the new one works out.

Cheers