Author Topic: Blue Cheese Making - Without Blue Rind  (Read 4435 times)

dttorun

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Blue Cheese Making - Without Blue Rind
« on: February 07, 2011, 06:26:17 PM »
Hi all,
I am looking for a blue cheese recipe that requires brining. I've been making blue cheese by sprinkling salt after removing from the mold but never tried brining. Is there any significant difference between surface salting and brining recipes? In terms of adding p.roq, pressing or washing during ripening especially. I am trying to get minimum mold formation on the rind. Also I am using MA4001 culture which gives creamy texture but I'd like to get crumbly blue.
Thanks,
Tan

iratherfly

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Re: Blue Cheese Making - Without Blue Rind
« Reply #1 on: February 07, 2011, 06:57:00 PM »
Hey Tan, I am doing this with my goat's lollipops. They have blue only inside and PC outside. It was a bit tricky but what I found it that  if I inoculate the blue and NOT inoculate competing bacteria like Geo and PC it will grow well. I salt the cheese medium-heavy with kosher salt. As soon as I see the first sign of internal blue I begin spraying a wash (Geo, PC, 3% salt). I spray onto the surface every 2 days, rutning the cheese on the day off. The Geo/PC out-competes the blue on the outside, giving me white stable rind outside and nice flavor and aroma to the cheese. I don't brine it but I don't see a reason not to brine (except this cheese it tiny). Some people here like Alex like to salt the curd before molding it.  You didn't mention what type of blue cheese you are making so it's hard to advice.

Here are the blue goats' lollipops, day 10, 3 days into spraying. These are ready by day 14-16
« Last Edit: February 07, 2011, 07:02:02 PM by iratherfly »

dttorun

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Re: Blue Cheese Making - Without Blue Rind
« Reply #2 on: February 07, 2011, 07:48:05 PM »
Hi iratherfly,
Thanks for the reply. I add my blue mold in 2-3 layers just before lightly pressing to minimize spreading the mold too early and I don't see colour change for a week or so until I pierce 4" dia x 4" high wheel. Next time I will try to spray PC but then I have to deal with it later to kill. I'd like to get a blue in the picture from Rosenborg.
Tan

iratherfly

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Re: Blue Cheese Making - Without Blue Rind
« Reply #3 on: February 07, 2011, 07:58:52 PM »
What do you mean you add it in layers? How do you apply it?

If you don't need PC for your cheese type - don't use it. It will effect the way the cheese ages and you don't want that.

I am think that a cheese like this minus outside mold is done by aging it wrapped in foil or plastic (piercing is done through the foil/plastic wrap)

dttorun

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Re: Blue Cheese Making - Without Blue Rind
« Reply #4 on: February 07, 2011, 08:18:47 PM »
After curdling, I drain the whey and fill the curd into cheesecloth (bag actually). I keep it 1 hr under light press to drain excess whey. Then I remove from the bag and chop into small pieces. I start filling the mold with 1/3 of the curds, then I sprinkle 1/16 tsp p.roq on top of it without going to the edges. Then I put next 1/3 of the curds on top of it and apply the same process. Finally add the rest of the curds and apply 2 lbs weight. This makes 2 layers of blue or I can sprinkle in 3 layers by using 1/4 of the curds each time if I have enough. By this way I keep p.roq in the center until piercing.
Wrapping in foil seems more reasonable than using PC but I still think brining is required to further delay blooming blue on the surface. Then the question is what is the time to wrap in foil as p.roq needs air to breath.
Tan

iratherfly

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Re: Blue Cheese Making - Without Blue Rind
« Reply #5 on: February 09, 2011, 04:47:40 AM »
This seems a bit wasteful and not necessarily effective. Try inoculating the P.Roq in milk or water first and then apply it with a  brush. Do you have any photos of that cheese? Curious.

dttorun

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Re: Blue Cheese Making - Without Blue Rind
« Reply #6 on: February 09, 2011, 01:22:14 PM »
Hi iratherfly,
When I sprinkle p.roq it still dispersed by the whey inside the body but doesn't spread all over the rind unlike direct adding to the milk. Anyway here are the photos of my 3 different batches. 3rd one has less mold formation because I pierced too early I guess.
Today I am making another batch of two wheels, one with brining other direct salting, lets see how they develop the rind. I am still not sure when to foil wrap and pierce though. Any ideas?
Tan

iratherfly

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Re: Blue Cheese Making - Without Blue Rind
« Reply #7 on: February 13, 2011, 06:14:48 AM »
Your second photo looks gorgeous. Perfect. Not just the paste but also the rind. At what day did you pierce it? How many piercing? Did you do more piercing later?

Looking at there, I may try your way in one of my next blues. Perhaps to prevent the wastefulness I would just use very little powder.  How much did you toss in there? What blue culture do you use?

Remember that most P.Roqs are quite resilient at lower temperatures. you can wrap it at the same time you would have wrapped a Camembert. After the rind has fully bloomed

What cheese recipe is this?

FRANCOIS

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Re: Blue Cheese Making - Without Blue Rind
« Reply #8 on: February 13, 2011, 09:35:07 AM »
Rindless blues are done with salt.  Lots and lots of salt OR preservative.  That Rosenburg pictured uses natamycin.  It's a European cheese and CODEX allows them to classify the preservative as processing aid, so no labeling required.

The recipe described below baffles me.  I assume the curd is milled to get an open texture, but this could be achieved with much less work if you just stirred the curd longer.  The described procedure is normally used for yellows.  It gives you low initial moisture and a descent knit (you can really press hard on a milled cheese) without having to macerate the curd.  I'm not sure why it's used here for blue though.  A downside to using it is that your pierce holes will have a tendency to close because the paste is so dense.  This is why most blues are drained curd.  When you punch the holes on day 3 or 4, they stay open.

Wrapping a blue in foil is not done to keep the rind clean, it is used in some smaller operations who have limited aging capability to keep the moisture high near the rind, a required step for p. roq.

dttorun

  • Guest
Re: Blue Cheese Making - Without Blue Rind
« Reply #9 on: February 13, 2011, 01:54:56 PM »
Your second photo looks gorgeous. Perfect. Not just the paste but also the rind. At what day did you pierce it? How many piercing? Did you do more piercing later?

Looking at there, I may try your way in one of my next blues. Perhaps to prevent the wastefulness I would just use very little powder.  How much did you toss in there? What blue culture do you use?

Remember that most P.Roqs are quite resilient at lower temperatures. you can wrap it at the same time you would have wrapped a Camembert. After the rind has fully bloomed

What cheese recipe is this?

I started with a recipe from Margaret Morris a couple of months ago and tweaked it after every batch. It is basically;
2 gal 3.25% store bought cow milk + 1 cup 35% heavy cream (92F)
1/4 tsp MA 4001 + 1/2 tablet rennet + 24 drp CaCL2 (adding all at the same time)
wait around 2 hrs to cut, 10 min rest, 20 min stir, 30 min rest with occasional stirring
scooping out the whey, transfering the curds into cheesecloth for 30 min draining
milling the curds, layering into the mold with 1/16 tsp of p.roq (PS strain). so there are 4 layers of curd and 3 layers of p/roq in between. total p.rop is 3 x 1/16
very light or no weight in top to press, keep in the mold overnight, flip up side down once or twice
remove from mold, pat dry, sprinkle salt, leave at room temp (18C-90%RH) in the container for 2 days, remove excess whey at the bottom
when the surface is fairly dry poke holes in every half inches on the surface, put the container in colder place (13-14C, 90%RH)
when the blue is visible on the surface or the holes are getting smaller, poke once again, keep flipping over daily until surface is dry
wrap with perforated paper and keep in the fridge minimum 3-4 weeks

dttorun

  • Guest
Re: Blue Cheese Making - Without Blue Rind
« Reply #10 on: February 13, 2011, 01:58:28 PM »
Rindless blues are done with salt.  Lots and lots of salt OR preservative.  That Rosenburg pictured uses natamycin.  It's a European cheese and CODEX allows them to classify the preservative as processing aid, so no labeling required.

The recipe described below baffles me.  I assume the curd is milled to get an open texture, but this could be achieved with much less work if you just stirred the curd longer.  The described procedure is normally used for yellows.  It gives you low initial moisture and a descent knit (you can really press hard on a milled cheese) without having to macerate the curd.  I'm not sure why it's used here for blue though.  A downside to using it is that your pierce holes will have a tendency to close because the paste is so dense.  This is why most blues are drained curd.  When you punch the holes on day 3 or 4, they stay open.

Wrapping a blue in foil is not done to keep the rind clean, it is used in some smaller operations who have limited aging capability to keep the moisture high near the rind, a required step for p. roq.

Francois,
I have two wheels still in draining rack, one is surface salted and other brined. I am going to foil wrap them but not sure when. Before or after seeing the mold on the surface or before or after piercing.
Tan

FRANCOIS

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Re: Blue Cheese Making - Without Blue Rind
« Reply #11 on: February 13, 2011, 08:53:16 PM »
After you pierce it, give it a week at 50F to fully equalise then foil wrap for 4-5 weeks and keep it cold.  Blue likes cold.  After 4-5 weeks unwrap to find a moldy cheese.  You can now dry it before further processing (cutting and wrapping).  Alternatively after hot draining, salting and piercing you could put it in a cold cheese cave with high humditiy (10C max at 90%) and let the blue go to town.  The cheese hsould be transfered to a dry room before final processing.

KosherBaker

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Re: Blue Cheese Making - Without Blue Rind
« Reply #12 on: February 14, 2011, 05:10:32 AM »
Wow, Tan. Those are some good looking wheels of cheese. Great job.

dttorun

  • Guest
Re: Blue Cheese Making - Without Blue Rind
« Reply #13 on: February 14, 2011, 03:18:05 PM »
Thanks Rudy,
I enjoy eating blue cheese and don't mind stinky rind but my wife is not a fan of it. So, trying to make it better thanks to the folks at the forum.
Tan