First Mozzarella resulting in edible cheese!

[HarryB]

Sailor and MrsKK thanks for the confirmation that it actually does sometime take up to 24 hours. We no longer need to try to figure out what we are doing wrong. Now we can work on making the process predictable. How often do you take samples to test; I suspect that with experience you can predict when you are going to enter the " spin zone".
Scarlet Runner, I am like you on the pH meter except I have one. However, it can only give a reading in whey and is no good for reading curds so I run out of information when there is no more whey development ( or not enough to read), somewhere around the 5.8-5.9 mark. Please keep us updated on your next test. Your style of information sharing is very understandable to me and your pictures are really interesting.
It would be neat if there were a curve of pH against time for various temperatures. Anybody have one?

[linuxboy]

Anybody have one?

Plenty in the library, or ask your supplier for the cultures you use. If you use a custom blend or native strains, make your own.

[HarryB]

Hey, that was quick Linuxboy. Thanks I have just looked it up and found one that looks similar to what I am getting on the beginning of my curve. There is a substantial increase in  off as the speed as the pH drops into the mid 5 mark, which explains why we overshoot easily.
That's another indication of how good this forum is.

[Sailor Con Queso]

Susan, You can't really add much more Citric Acid or you risk overacidifying the curds. If the pH is too low, the heated curds will just become brittle and won't stretch.

[linuxboy]

increase moisture in the final cheese?  If increased acidity equals increased moisture in the cheese this seems like a reasonable adjustment. 

What Sailor said. Also, remember acidity is about calcium balance first, moisture second or third or later. Moisture is controlled through rennet amount, CaCl2, PF, floc multiplier (primary control), and stir/cook schedule.

[susanky]

Well shoot.  I guess I knew it couldn't really be that simple.  I don't quite have my mind wrapped out the Ca++ and acidity issue.  Is there information somewhere about the chemistry of it all that would help?

I made a batch yesterday and for the first time ever after it 'set' it was still just milk!  I had used Junket (because I had always done that with Mozzarella).  When it didn't set I added 1/2tsp my liquid calf rennet.  It gelled immediately and I realized it was too much.  Despite all this it made a wonderful stretchy mozzarella (but not particularly moist).  I am one of the lucky ones who has never had a failure with mozzarella.  Seems to work out despite me.  But I am always using raw milk.  That probably helps.  Thanks for the advice.  Will keep on trying!
Susan

[linuxboy]

It's buried somewhere in one of my posts. Likely more like a few dozen posts over the years.

Basically

- after rennet cleaves k-casein, a-casein is exposed, which is hydrophobic, bonds to other a-caseins to form the matrix.
- that bond is facilitation by available ionic calcium (this is why we add CaCl2)
- The bond is essentially a calcium phosphate bond. aka colloidal calcium

As acid builds up, all those calcium bonds break. And the breaking of those bonds, coupled with the culture, and mix of proteins is what enables the stretch to happen. Stretching is breaking of bonds and reestablishing them. Heat makes the plasticization possible, lowers the energy threshold.

[Sailor Con Queso]

...and curd size with a good healing time before making horizontal cuts. I cut vertically and then wait 10 minutes or so before making horizontal cuts. I think it makes a huge difference in the moisture content and flavor.

I was taught to never add CaCl2 when making Mozz unless there is a real problem with the milk? Yes? On NECS's website, Ricki Carroll is now advocating a double dose of CaCl2 for overly pasteurized or problem milk.

Susan - your raw milk has tons of wonderful calcium ions floating around and it shouldn't take much calf rennet to kick the curds, but I personally would dump the Junket tablets.

[Scarlet Runner]

Nitai- "Cheddaring".... do you mean as soon as my curds are cooked to hold the (drained) curds at a warm temp, like 90F, for some amount of time?

Harry- I end up testing for spin about every hour ; maybe every 2 hours in the beginning. I believe you're right- once we get the hang of it, seems like we can guess better when the "spin zone" is fast approaching.  LinuxBoy has some nice info in his original recipe (link on top of my original first post) on guidelines for spin testing that support this general idea. BTW, could you post a link to whatever pH curve you found? Also, regarding the pH meter- my drained, cooked curds start leaking a little whey after a few hours, probably enough to sample- do yours?  Or, can you just stick the probe into the cheese? Anyway, thanks for your feedback; glad these posts are helpful for someone else!!

LinuxBoy.... risking a dumb question... does too much rennet mean less final moisture?

Sailor- Thanks for the curd cutting tips. I need more moisture! For what it's worth, as a beginner, I have also read all over the place that one should NOT add CaCl2 when making Mozz, because it may inhibit stretch.  On my third attempt at 30 min Mozz, I actually ignored this and tried adding CaCl2, and got the worst non-existent stretch ever. So I believe it!!  Seems like I've read this confirmed in Fox or some other text as well...

[linuxboy]

LinuxBoy.... risking a dumb question... does too much rennet mean less final moisture?

No. Think about what the enzyme does. It destabilized casein, bringing it out of suspension in milk and enabling caseins to bond to each other. They form a matrix. This matrix retains water. The more enzyme, the faster all these reactions can take place (within reason, it's not like a linear reaction). And the longer the casein particles are stuck together, the stronger the curd matrix. So water retention is determined in good part by floc multiplier.

[HarryB]

Scarlet Runner. The information is in the CF library. Here is the link
http://cheeseforum.org/forum/index.php/board,172.0.html.
All I needed was a look at any curve and then I understood more about what is going on.
My curd does leak whey but the pH meter that I use has the sensor enclosed so it needs quite a volume in order to register a reading; for the same reason it is useless for taking a curd reading. The flat sensor would have been a better purchase.
I also have converted to Sailor's suggestion of using dried milk instead of CaCl2 and the resulting curd is very good.

[BigCheese]

Nitai- "Cheddaring".... do you mean as soon as my curds are cooked to hold the (drained) curds at a warm temp, like 90F, for some amount of time?

yup. Usually the drained curds are cut into slabs and stacked.

[Scarlet Runner]

Taking everyone's advice on this thread, I sat down with a few pH curves from the library (thanks for pointing me to these Harry), LinuxBoy's original recipe, and my make notes to ponder. It's a bit dicey, given that I don't have a pH meter (yet) and I couldn't find a pH curve for a mixture of cultures that more closely resembles what I used in the recipe (a mix of L. lactis, L. cremoris and S. thermophilus- per recipe).  But, this process gave me some clues that are helpful.

I notice the ripening time I am using is on the low side- I have ripened for 60 or 90 minutes, while both LB's recipe AND the pH curves indicate that this may be a bit short.  So, next time aim for 120 minutes ripen time, to get me further out on the pH curve.

Second, I think I may not be draining my curds at the ideal pH target of 6.0-6.1, so I may try in the future cooking a bit longer at 104F to speed pH development.

And finally, the pH curves show that to achieve that final pH drop of about 1.0 units (to get from 6 to 5 for stretching) it should take 2 or 3 hours, depending on if I "cheddar" at 90F, or hold at room temp (72F). 

So thanks all, for more ideas about what to try next time- I think I'll go for longer ripen time and then cheddar the curds at 90F first, and see where that gets me.

LinuxBoy: One point of remaining confusion.  Your recipe notes it is important to drain the curds within ~2 hours of adding buttermilk culture

If making as an overnight recipe, the important part is that you drain when the whey pH is at or below 6.2 (ideal range 6.05-6.1), about 1.5-2 hours from adding buttermilk. 

but that seems too short a time to ripen for 90 min, floc time, curd cut, and cook. Am I missing something?

[linuxboy]

So, next time aim for 120 minutes ripen time, to get me further out on the pH curve.

This will give you more casein solubilization while the milk is liquid, tends to make for an easier and more reliable stretch. Commercially, it's not uncommon to rennet at 6.3 for mozz.

I may not be draining my curds at the ideal pH target of 6.0-6.1,

If you drain too high, there's too much calcium and it will inhibit proper stretching.

it should take 2 or 3 hours,

Anywhere from 90 minutes (for 3-4% culture) to 24+ hours. That's why I recommend testing for spin at home. Easier to time in a plant.

longer ripen time and then cheddar the curds at 90F first, and see where that gets me.

Sounds great.

Your recipe notes it is important to drain the curds within ~2 hours of adding buttermilk culture

No, I indicate that it is important to drain at specific acidity, and it takes "about" 2 hours. Timing here is secondary, wide variety of possible curves. Acidity is key.

[Scarlet Runner]

Thanks for all the great feedback, linuxboy.  And all the attention to your recipe in the first place.  I'm excited that I'm really learning Mozzarella.

Anywhere from 90 minutes (for 3-4% culture) to 24+ hours.

Your comments point out one more insight for me: that of course, those pH curves that we look at in the library are for a particular starting dose of culture- and the dose I'm using in the recipe may be different or not. So, again- one more argument for a pH meter.  But it's so much fun stabbing around in the dark!!