Arnaud's Beaufort 1

[linuxboy]

Aging isn't that straightforward. You have regions in a cave with temp and humidity differences. And you have microclimates where some species dominate. And then you have the control factor where you can alter the development by what you do.

I personally wouldn't want to deal with aging a tomme and beaufort in the same cave, but it's possible. Suggest you do what you can and see how it turns out.

[ArnaudForestier]

Aging isn't that straightforward. You have regions in a cave with temp and humidity differences. And you have microclimates where some species dominate. And then you have the control factor where you can alter the development by what you do.

I personally wouldn't want to deal with aging a tomme and beaufort in the same cave, but it's possible. Suggest you do what you can and see how it turns out.

OK, I Understand.  I'll watch and deal accordingly.  You've also given food for thought for the broader question, a larger, natural cave system.  Thanks.

[Boofer]

I personally wouldn't want to deal with aging a tomme and beaufort in the same cave, but it's possible. Suggest you do what you can and see how it turns out.

Some (most) of us don't have many options for otherwise. I was doing just that with my Tomme #2 With a Complex Rind and my Beaufort #2.

I realized I would have the risk of cross contamination, but I had to live with it anyway. The addition of the new cave gives me more options. The use of the minicaves helps to retain some control.

-Boofer-

[ArnaudForestier]

Some (most) of us don't have many options for otherwise. I was doing just that with my Tomme #2 With a Complex Rind and my Beaufort #2.

I realized I would have the risk of cross contamination, but I had to live with it anyway. The addition of the new cave gives me more options. The use of the minicaves helps to retain some control.

-Boofer-

Pretty amazing how quickly my tommes have started to take off.  Definite progress of linens (will post some pics tomorrow or next); seems like a veritable party going on, which I think I'm going to have to monitor a bit more closely than before.  I, too, Boof, am considering another cave, as I have an additional humidifier and can set up another environment.

FYI, for anyone interested on this notion of brining, then dry-rubbing, I did find the original cite, where I got the notion.  Culture Cheese Magazine.  The thing that piqued my curiosity:

After unmolding, cheeses are transferrd to a cool "cave" and stored for another 24 hours before being submerged in brine for a day. Thereafter, cheeses are turned and hand salted on one side every morning and rubbed every afternoon while being stored on spruce shelves.

This process continues for one to two months, and when the rind is deemed satisfactory, the routine changes to twice weekly turning, and an application of mixed salt and a substance called "morge." "Morge" is a mixture of brine, old cheese scrapings and whey, and is known to contain at least 480 species of bacteria. This process develops the characteristic russet-colored rind of Beaufort.

[Boofer]

A brining period, but a "month or two of" dry-rubbing/turning daily

I've never seen this done.

Are they not, essentially, equivalent - a saturated brine wash, and an extended dry-rub/dry "brine" development? 

No, you lose more moisture from the cheese when dry salting.

I don't understand the point of the brining followed by the dry-salting. Seems like the resulting cheese would be too salty, very hard, and very dry. Is that your target?

Thanks for distilling the Beaufort recipe. I am well pleased with my efforts so far and will use your work in my third effort down the road.

While I was writing this I scrolled down and saw your reference to the Culture Cheese Magazine and "morge". Wow, 480 species of bacteria! All good? All safe? Is that possible, linuxboy? That just seems too far "out there".
 
-Boofer-

[ArnaudForestier]

Boof, I think for me, there's likely several things at play, and most of it was out of a lack of clear understanding of procedures, past the make itself.  What first prompted me was from reading in Sailor's recipe:

This is traditionaly a washed rind cheese. In about 7-10 days surface molds will start to develop. This needs to be wiped down with a saturated brine at 3-6 day intervals to start. Traditionaly the surface of large Beauforts is sprinkled with salt and allowed to develop its own brine. This is rubbed into the surface the following day, the cheese is turned, and the cycle repeated. A red rind will form in time and will require less frequent treatments.

-and since this followed the soaking brine itself in the recipe, I had thought this was basically a traditional version of what I knew of as the "washing" regimen, but one of using a dry rub instead. 

I also saw this on cheesemaking.com's's website, on beaufort:

Rind development:
This is a washed rind cheese. In about 7-10 days a surface mold will develop and this needs to be wiped down with a saturated brine at 3-6 day intervals to start. For the large Beaufort the surface is sprinkled with salt, allowed to develop its own brine, and this is rubbed into the surface on the next day. The cheese is turned and the cycle repeated. A red rind will form in time and the rind treatment will become less.

When I further saw the Culture Cheese website, describing a "1 to 2 month" period of dry-rubbing "until the rind is ready for a morge," I concluded this was "traditional" practice, esp. given Sailor's and cheesemaking.com's comment.  I'm still a bit confused as to what "traditional" practice means, given the above quotes, and the description of this dry-rub period (an extended period) in at least one other site.  Perhaps Sailor or Pav could clarify? 

I am definitely not after a salty, hard cheese.  I love alpine cheeses, and simply want to make a nutty, buttery (and...if I could get the milk...wonderfully floral, grassy) beaufort, similar to those I've come to love.  I am also yet ignorant of salt-in-moisture levels, how to estimate it (how to estimate salt uptake) given a brine or a dry-rub; still learning.

Bit of digression, forgive me:

I think the operative term, is "still learning."   And trying to lock in moving targets: something I will have inevitably to get over.  Pav's comments re: "aging isn't that straightforward" are definitely taken to heart. 

It's interesting, to me,  - from my brewing days, dealing with an inherently unstable product - from the raw materials (malt starch and protein levels; hop a- and b-acid contents) to the living components (yeasts, and their varying ways), past a certain point, the goal was no longer as much "creativity," but taking an inherently variable, biological thing, and shooting for some level of consistency - even at the "craft brewery" level, an important thing once expectations from year to year come into being.  It was fairly easy to do, in brewing. 

But then, there's a lot more alchemy, I think, in brewing; a lot more inherent engineering than, say, my cousin's world, that of wine.  I'm consequently not quite as comfortable in handling the wily world of bacterias and moulds, as well as yeasts.  I shall have to get used to constant dancing, methinks.

[Boofer]

Those two quotes you have look like copies of each other. Someone wrote it, someone else came along and merely paraphrased it. They say the same thing...no new knowledge.

I had read that too and what I got out of it was that this was a traditional rind treatment for LARGE wheels of cheese (40lbs or better). The double salting treatment probably wouldn't have a negative impact on that much cheese, but I think you would see a definite extra dose of salt in the size of cheeses we typically make (3-7lb).

The double salt dose might be applicable to Wayne or FarmerJD's size of cheese wheel since they make 25 pounders.

I made an observation about Vasterbotten in another thread, commenting that the pressing regimen went up to 90kg per kg of cheese. In my myopic world that meant in excess of 800 lbs pressing power. In that case the cheesemaking instructions were geared towards 40lb wheels. If I applied those same instructions to my cheesemaking world, I would press my 4lb cheese at 800 lbs and end up with a cheese diamond. 

So I think the recipes and instructions for making cheese that we find out there in the etherworld should be taken with just a little pinch of salt. 

Just my opinion, of course.

-Boofer-

[linuxboy]

While I was writing this I scrolled down and saw your reference to the Culture Cheese Magazine and "morge". Wow, 480 species of bacteria! All good? All safe? Is that possible, linuxboy? That just seems too far "out there".

Wrong word choice. Not species, but strains. It's not uncommon to have dozens of strains of geo, be linens, yeasts, etc, in a traditional morge. But not that many unique species. In cheesemaking, it comes down to maybe 20-30 species for morge.

[Boofer]

How common is the use of a morge? Is it something we hobby cheese artisans should consider or is it too fraught with difficulties and problems? How much does it improve the final quality of the cheese flavor and texture over what most of us may be doing (brine wash, wine wash, beer wash, misting, etc.)?

-Boofer-

[ArnaudForestier]

I had read that too and what I got out of it was that this was a traditional rind treatment for LARGE wheels of cheese (40lbs or better). The double salting treatment probably wouldn't have a negative impact on that much cheese, but I think you would see a definite extra dose of salt in the size of cheeses we typically make (3-7lb).

It seemed excessive to me on even a traditional beaufort wheel, and seemed especially so on an 8" wheel.

What he said.  Or he said. Or what someone said.

Yep, Boof, I was aware that if this applied to anything, it would be to the traditional, large wheel.  What I was querying (it seems I queried poorly), was basically on whether this really was done in a traditional practice; and if so, what lessons could be drawn on a smaller, home-style wheel. 

Because I did see it (agreed, Sailor's and cheesemaking's were basically saying the same thing; and the idea was only extended in the cheese culture article), I was hoping to find some kind of clue as to the reasoning, if so.  I still would love to know whether anyone, in traditional practice, soak-brines, acclimatizes, then dry-rubs "daily" in the way discussed. 

[ArnaudForestier]

I've read some interesting articles, and have begun reading some of the scientific texts behind a lot of this discussion on surface-ripening, in beaufort and related cheeses (thanks, Pav - reading esp. the bacterial surface-ripened chapter in Cheese: Chem., Physics and Micro, and also in particular, enjoying today, "Nature et variabilité de la flore microbienne dans la morge des fromages de Comté et de Beaufort," Le Lait (1992), 72, 143-164 - the last is in French, for anyone interested).

I need to digest; a quick question.  If I washed the tommes every other day to begin and attempt a good foothold of desired flora, I note the beaufort protocol is "every 3-6 days."  My nervous micro-managing (no pun intended) habit would wish me to try to get the beaufort started early, and well, with a more frequent washing initially then a 7-10 day waiting period, followed by by a washing routine of 3-6 days.  Is the difference in washing regimens between the two styles related to the difference in rind permeability, cheese moisture content, aging period, and so forth?  In other words, a beaufort is a longer, slower, gentler rind "layering" and cheese maturation process, whereas a tomme, or like cheese, is simply more prone to deleterious flora effects (because of rind and moisture differences), is washed by a different protocol, and aged more rapidly? 

Or have I misread something, and there's no reason one wouldn't wash a beaufort initially, every couple of days (over every 3-6 days)?

Thanks.

[linuxboy]

No, that's right. Tomme rind is higher moisture, faster ripening, and the point is to let the molds and bacteria release enzymes into the body of the cheese and help to change the paste.

Beaufort rind is dry, have to wait for it to form, then layer on the morge.

[ArnaudForestier]

Thanks, Pav.  I washed the beaufort, initially, after brining and drying.  I was planning on doing this on a 3 day schedule, initially, so that would mean tomorrow, again.  Is this, then, a mistake, and I should allow a week or two in the cave, untouched (I am turning it, daily).

[ArnaudForestier]

(split, as it's a cumbersome read...just an FYI, for anyone interested):

BTW, off-topic, and Pav, you may have read this already - but for anyone else, an article on husbandry practices - genetics, physiology and feeding - and their influence on texture, taste and other sensory aspects in cheese; from the same journal - "Relationships between ruminant management and sensory characteristics of cheeses: a review," Lait, 84 (2004), 221-241.  I am somewhat keyed by this today, for a couple of reasons. 

One, I tasted the most extraordinary cheddar:  Willi Lehner's (bleu mont dairy) bandaged cheddar.  It's been a long, long time.  Without hyperbole, the most incredible sensation of pasture grass - and this is tasted in the late, late winter.  I've had cheeses before that capture this fresh, grassy quality; but MAN, I love this maker's cheese, and eager to see more of what he does.

Secondly, coming off a grazing conference a few weeks back, and having talked with a French cattle genetics guy, I am very interested in the potential for Normande, Montbéliarde and Tarentaise breeds and crosses, in American cheesemaking.  (The article discusses, in part, some of the genetics of these breeds in terms of their casein variants, and their impact on cheese properties.  It also discusses how the physiological aspects of cattle, food preservation methods and forage composition - to include "highland" v. "valley" feeding differences - influence the sensory aspects of cheese.  Very interesting, to me, when thinking of a given cheese's "style."

Paul

[ArnaudForestier]

I am hopeful someone can help clear this up - trying to derive process, from Pav and Sailor's guidance, and from things read by people like Frank Kosikowski, et al.  I am not trying to complicate it, just sincerely remain confused as to what to do in the early stages of affinage.  Admittedly, most of what I've read applies to large wheels - but again, trying to understand exactly what is at work to dry the beaufort rind during the first, critical period, in prepping it either for an entirely natural rind process, or a bacterial surface-smear ripening.   

In addition to Sailor's recipe, and references elsewhere in a general way to gruyere, etc., some of what I've read:

From Kosikowski (this is for Gruyere): "Proceed as for Emmental" [NOTE: this includes brining for 2-3 days, then a cool room treatment of: 50-60F, 90ish% RH, and wiping down daily with a salt solution; turn cheese over onto a clean board, sprinkle dry salt over the surface, and replace on shelf.  Repeat for 10-14 days].  Then "Hold in a warm room at a minimum of 57F for 4 weeks or more; salt the rind periodically, and permit smearing of the surfaces during curing at 59F.  Store at 50-57F for 3-12 mos., or at 43F for 6-12 months."   

From Fox, et al, Cheese, Chemistry and Microbiology, "Bacterial Surface-Ripened Cheeses": "Smear cheeses are normally salted by brining for 4-18 hours, depending on the size of the cheese; with smaller cheeses being brined for shorter periods, after which the cheeses are brined for some hours to remove excess brine.  Again, Beaufort, Comte and Gruyere cheeses are an exception to this rule, as their surfaces are rubbed with dry salt several times throughout their ripening."

Both texts go on; and many others do as well.  I am just wondering what exactly one does, after brining to (a) make a beaufort with a natural rind; I see many instructions say "in 7-10 days, moulds will appear which will need to be wiped down with a saturated solution...." So, does this mean that for the first 7-10 days after brining, the cheese is to be left alone, or, as I seem to see in, say Kosikowski, some sort of salting regimen - presumably to dry the rind out, per Pav's discussion of the nature of the rind in these types of cheeses - is to take place (I again admit the smallness of the wheel - and just wonder if some salting, adjusting for the smaller wheel, is to take place during the first period after brining - BEFORE 7-10 days take place?)

Or,

(b) if doing a true bacterial-ripened beaufort, again, is there any provision for this salting regimen (in order to dry out the rind, and prep it for the eventual flora - given the desired end in a beaufort, comte, etc. v. a tomme, as discussed above)?

I am truly sorry to beat a dead horse; I'm just thoroughly confused about the nature of how, exactly, to dry out the beaufort, during the first week or two, post-brining, and "drying" period of a day or two.  Pav, or anyone, if you could clarify this, I'd greatly appreciate it, as this would help elucidate much more than beaufort making alone.  Many thanks.

Paul