Author Topic: Newbie trying for Squeeky curds (for poutine)  (Read 4495 times)

PanamEric

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Newbie trying for Squeeky curds (for poutine)
« on: March 07, 2011, 02:58:35 PM »
Hello,

I am new to this forum and also new to cheese making.
I am from Quebec and live in Panama where they don't have squeeky curds.
So given that I somewhat miss my occasional poutine I set out to make squeeky curds.
I bought four books on cheese making and although all fascinating to read only one has a squeeky curds recipe.
I have tried twice so far.
First time the consistency was a bit too crumbly and tasted bitter.
Second time, yesterday, consistency was much better but not quite there.
The taste is a bit bitter though. Wonder if that could be the calcium chloride?

I am using whole homogenized milk until I get a spare fridge because i can only buy raw in 5gls at a time. I got the starter cultures and rennet from Leeners, and a digital temp controler that I am using with a double boiler so my temperatures are within 1 or 2 degrees from target. Using calcium chloride and non iodized salt and non-chlorinated water.
I think the milk I am using is not so bad cuz I am getting somewhat firm curds about the right hardness with some squeek but I can't seem to get the squeek right and the curds are not as smooth as what I am used to see in my hometown.

So I read a lot of posts I am now thinking that I might have to cook the curds at a higher temp then the 100F I have been using. The store bought curds look as if they are a bit melted, meaning that instead of the clean cuts I get from the milling they have more rounded shapes, as if they had melted a bit..
What temperature should I cook these at?

Is it possible that these have to be cooked a second time at higher temp to achieve the firm rounded shape?

Any input would be appreciated.
Thanks




tananaBrian

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Re: Newbie trying for Squeeky curds (for poutine)
« Reply #1 on: March 07, 2011, 05:48:17 PM »
...I tried making squeaky curds this weekend as well, mostly however, to test Lucerne milk from Carrs/Safeway to see if it will work OK for making cheese.  So far, here in Anchorage, Alaska, the Lucerne milk is the only reasonable-cost milk that I have found that does indeed work.  The other pasteurized/homogenized milks have been exposed to too high of a temperature during pasteurization and produce mush for curds.  The Lucerne worked quite well every time that I've tried it (once with skim, once with whole).

But I digress...

This weekend, I made cheese curds according to this recipe at Ricki Carroll's site, but was not impressed.  I suspect that mine came out sort of like yours when it came to texture.  They are not rounded like the ones you see in the pictures online (I've never had the pleasure of trying the real thing from Minnesota or Wisconsin), but do look like the pictures that Ricki shows on her web site.  Texture is fine and they squeak a tiny bit, but the flavor is fairly bland.  Almost like eating a dairy-ish tasting tofu.  I'm going to vacuum pack mine and toss them in the cheese cave and see what they do after a few weeks.  And as mentioned, I've never actually tried the real thing so I don't know what they are supposed to taste like.  My wife had cheddar cheese curds at the Tillamook dairy in Oregon, and she said the texture was more of a slightly rubberier version of cheddar and that the curds tasted pretty close to what the cheddar tastes like ...which to me seems odd since cheese curds are very fresh, so where did the cheddar flavor come from that fast?  I suspect that the curds she tried were aged several months or something ...how else could they taste like cheddar???

I'd like to be able to make cheese curds with the following improvements:

1. More cheesy flavor
2. Squeaky (at least for the first 24 hours)
3. Smoother texture with more rounded features.

BTW, Mine had no hint of bitterness at all and I rounded up a bit in both CaCl and liquid animal rennet.  I used 1/2 tsp liquid CaCl and 1/2 tsp rennet in 2 gallons of milk.  With both, I filled the 1/2 teaspoon measure to the point that the meniscus was bulging above the rim of the spoon.  Using the spinning bowl method, I got first flocculation at 8-1/2 minutes and cut the curds at 27 minutes (total, about a 3X floc multiplier).  In the recipe above, the milk is first 'scald ripened' for 90 minutes at 96 F (huh?), a thermophilic culture is used, the curds are heated to 116 F then cooked for 30 to 60 minutes at 116 F ...I kept mine at that temp for 45 minutes on this first pass.  Then the curds are drained, pressed under about 8# for a couple of hours, then milled.  I do believe that mine came out exactly as intended by Ricki ...I just wish for 'more' when it comes to taste and what not.

Anyone?

Brian

PS: More info... I just got feedback from a coworker who HAS had the Wisconsin cheese curds.  He said the flavor that I got was very close to what it should be but that the curds in Wisconsin were both a bit softer and more flexible (even a tad rubbery?) than mine.  I think a tad less rennet and cooking at a slightly cooler temperature for less time, maybe only 30 minutes or slightly less, might be the final touch.  Mine squeak a little but they are at refrigerator temperature.  He said to try microwaving them a minute ...



« Last Edit: March 07, 2011, 06:08:28 PM by tananaBrian »

linuxboy

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Re: Newbie trying for Squeeky curds (for poutine)
« Reply #2 on: March 07, 2011, 06:48:01 PM »
Quote
I just wish for 'more' when it comes to taste and what not.
Use the extended shelf life curd recipe on my site. I spent many months on it, and it makes for an excellent product.

tananaBrian

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Re: Newbie trying for Squeeky curds (for poutine)
« Reply #3 on: March 07, 2011, 09:00:00 PM »
Quote
I just wish for 'more' when it comes to taste and what not.

Use the extended shelf life curd recipe on my site. I spent many months on it, and it makes for an excellent product.


Awesome!  I didn't know you had a recipe for curds!  Honestly, I forgot to check your site (and Peter Dixon's now and then)...

Found it:  Fresh Cheddar Curd: Extended Shelf Life at the Washington Cheese Guild web site

Thanks,
Brian


linuxboy

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Re: Newbie trying for Squeeky curds (for poutine)
« Reply #4 on: March 07, 2011, 11:51:59 PM »
And if you don't like that, use a standard cheddar recipe, pay attention to the acidity, and use the milled, salted, unpressed curds.

PanamEric

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Re: Newbie trying for Squeeky curds (for poutine)
« Reply #5 on: March 08, 2011, 02:41:56 PM »
Thank you Brian and Linuxboy,

Very interesting. I can't wait to try the wacheese.com recipe.

I do however have a few -newbie- questions.

1- I noted that the recipe does not call for CaCl2, and it says to "use best quality whole milk...and fresh raw milk if possible".
Not sure if I should understand that pasteurized is OK. Should I use calcium chloride if using -store bought- pasteurized homogenized milk?
2- The diacetylactis starter. There is some in my mesophilic culture (MM from Leeners)along with spp lactis and cremoris. Would that do or do I need to have diacetylactis by itself?
3- I also noticed that the curd is milled. Will the irregular smooth rounded shape  be achieved by salting?
See attached picture for the real thing...
4- Also would adding lipase improve the flavor or jsut mess things up? And if it would work when should it be introduced?

Thank you for your replies and your patience, It is much appreciated

Eric

linuxboy

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Re: Newbie trying for Squeeky curds (for poutine)
« Reply #6 on: March 08, 2011, 03:01:34 PM »
Quote
1- I noted that the recipe does not call for CaCl2, and it says to "use best quality whole milk...and fresh raw milk if possible".
Not sure if I should understand that pasteurized is OK. Should I use calcium chloride if using -store bought- pasteurized homogenized milk?
Yes, add if your milk needs it. I have no way of knowing the quality of your milk. If the quality is low, you can increase curd strength by using cacl2. This is for all milk, raw and pasteurized.
Quote
2- The diacetylactis starter. There is some in my mesophilic culture (MM from Leeners)along with spp lactis and cremoris. Would that do or do I need to have diacetylactis by itself?
The point of this recipe is that it is engineered. Meaning it is crafted to follow a very specific acidification curve, and takes advantage of texturizing, metabolic pathways, and other properties of the cultures. You can use whatever you want, but it will make a completely different cheese. That recipe is for curds that do not undergo post-acidification and yet have superior flavor. It's kind of a holy grail in fresh curd making.

What you're asking is something like, I am making lamb chops and my recipe calls for a frenched, cut rack. Can I substitute a boneless pork loin? Sure! But then you'd be making pork chops :)

Quote
3- I also noticed that the curd is milled. Will the irregular smooth rounded shape  be achieved by salting?
No, by proper texturing, and getting the curds to the right acidity, and using the right temp in the vat to keep them warm, and tossing the curds together when salting to smush them into each other. Those edges are caused by collisions and plasticity.
Quote
4- Also would adding lipase improve the flavor or jsut mess things up?
Up to you. I posted what works for me. I don't like lipase in fresh curds.
Quote
And if it would work when should it be introduced?
Same as culture.
« Last Edit: March 08, 2011, 04:27:06 PM by linuxboy »

tananaBrian

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Re: Newbie trying for Squeeky curds (for poutine)
« Reply #7 on: March 08, 2011, 06:47:10 PM »

Thanks, LB.  I too am going to make your version and I'm going to buy the specific single-strain cultures that you recommend.  It won't be for awhile though ...other projects are getting behind at the house, so I'm going to put a stay on cheese making for 3 or more weeks... It's getting to the point in our house (new to us) that we just HAVE to finish up some storage projects and what not...

Brian


linuxboy

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Re: Newbie trying for Squeeky curds (for poutine)
« Reply #8 on: March 08, 2011, 07:24:25 PM »
OK, but you can also make good quality curds with any heterofermentive blend like Aroma B or FD or probat 222. It's nonstandard, and you'll have gas formation in the curds, but you will have more flavor. The rest is up to the milk.