Author Topic: Splitting yoghurt  (Read 238 times)

Online Shane

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Splitting yoghurt
« on: March 22, 2015, 03:04:47 AM »
Hi Guys,

I'm following the wiki for yoghurt and I'm running into problems. This is my second attempt and both times have resulted in split yoghurt that is gritty.

I'm making it in a temperature controlled water bath using P&H milk with thermo Greek yoghurt as the starter. I'm heating to 85°C and then cooling to 50°C where the starter is added. The temperature is then maintained at this temperature. After about 4hrs at this temperature the milk thickens and then splits.

Is the 50°C in the wiki correct or do I need to drop lower? Otherwise what else am I doing wrong? I'm having no problems making quark or buttermilk starter, so I figured this would be just as simple. Very frustrating.

Thanks in advance.

Regards,

Shane



Offline awakephd

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Re: Splitting yoghurt
« Reply #1 on: March 22, 2015, 02:39:45 PM »
Shane,

I am getting really good results from a similar protocol, but a much longer incubation. I heat the milk to 180-185˚F (around 84˚C) directly on the stove on medium-high and hold it at that temp for 30 minutes, stirring constantly. (I sit and read a book with one hand, stirring with the other!) Then I cool quickly to 115-120˚ (around 49˚C). I whisk a small amount of the milk with 2-3 tablespoons of starter yoghurt (I especially like what I get when using Froyo 2% milk yoghurt, but good results with other brands as well), then stir into the full amount. I put in a glass jar and leave in the yoghurt maker for 12 hours.

Obviously, the length of time I incubate is one significant difference from your protocol. Another factor that may affect your results -- be sure to keep the yoghurt completely undisturbed until the end of incubation, and then put straight into the fridge -- do not do anything with it until it has completely cooled. Disturbing it before it gets cooled seems to give me much less firm results.

I'm not sure this will be helpful, since if I understand your post correctly, you're seeing the mixture split apart while still incubating -- ? What are you using to hold at incubating temp?

By the way, I make yoghurt a gallon at a time. :) No, my yoghurt maker is not nearly that big ... but I've found a glass jar that sits in the "well" of the maker, and if I wrap it all up with towels, it works perfectly.
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Online Shane

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Re: Splitting yoghurt
« Reply #2 on: March 22, 2015, 03:50:04 PM »
Thanks Andy. It sounds like I've done a few things wrong. I whisked the yoghurt into the milk, which maybe aerated it too much. The second thing I did wrong was that I disturbed the yoghurt in the incubation stage. Not much, but I did occasionally check to see if it was thickening. I think I also added too much starter. I added a full 170g tub to 3L of milk.

I have a portable electric hot plate connected to a couple of temperature controllers with RTD's. In that I have a couple of pots acting as a water bath. Temperature is controlled in the water and I wait for the milk to achieve the temperature targets. I ramped up the milk to 85°C over 1.5hrs. I then cooled it down over around an hour to 50°C. The yoghurt (chobani) was mixed in at 50°C and the temperature was maintained there for the incubation period. Obviously I could see it had split (looked like ricotta forming) only 4hrs into the process.

I'll give it another go following your amendments. Any suggestions on what to do with nearly 3 litres of split/gritty yoghurt? :)

Thanks for your help.

Shane

Online Shane

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Re: Splitting yoghurt
« Reply #3 on: March 22, 2015, 04:03:47 PM »
Oh and there was another thing I did wrong. I started straining it hot from the saucepan. Will remember to wait till the day after. This morning the yoghurt actually doesn't taste too bad. It's not gritty like I thought it was, but didn't look quite right. It's certainly edible, just not smooth and creamy like the starter. I might try and find some recipes to use it in.

Shane

Offline steffb503

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Re: Splitting yoghurt
« Reply #4 on: March 23, 2015, 05:30:27 AM »
You can put it in a cooler filler with hot water to keep the temp up.

Offline awakephd

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Re: Splitting yoghurt
« Reply #5 on: March 23, 2015, 09:14:51 AM »
Shane,

Yes, definitely do not try to strain it until it is fully cooled (as in, cooled all the way down to refrigerator temp). As for too much starter -- I wouldn't think that would cause a problem ... but in my experience it isn't necessary to use that much.

One other difference, though I'm not sure if it matters -- I've heard that one should heat milk slowly and cool it rapidly, but actually I heat my milk up and cool it back down pretty rapidly. Mind you, I don't put it on the stove on high ... but I do get it up to temp in less than 30 minutes. (Not sure exactly how long, but definitely less than that.) And then I put the pan in a sink of cool water to cool it back down, which takes 5-10 minutes.
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Re: Splitting yoghurt
« Reply #6 on: March 23, 2015, 12:27:42 PM »
I have been making skyr a while now, always with good outcome. I started out with a Siggis brand skyr from the grocery store, but now I make it from cultures from my last make. I'm on about the 8th batch. I make it in 2 gallon batches (I can't seem to meet the demand for the stuff) with fat free p/h milk, heated to 190f(over an hour), cooled to 110f off the burner, but on the counter., usually 3+ hours. At 110f, I mix about a yogurt cup worth of culture with about a half cup of the 110 milk, till it is pourable. I mix that in, take 12-14 drops of vegetable rennet in a quarter cup of cool water,  mix that in as well. then I put the whole thing, covered,into the oven with the oven light on, for 12 hours. If you leave it less or more by an hour, the curds seem to break up. Then I cut the curds, at what ever temp they came out of the oven, and pour them into 2 extra large nut milk bags. I got those on amazon, and they are awesome for draining ricotta, skyr, etc. I let them drain a couple hours, until its the consistency I want, somewhere between Greek yogurt and cream cheese, then into a big bowl and whisk it for 15 minutes or so, until smooth. If it is too dry, I add some whey back in. I do not add anything to it, leaving that for whoever gets it. I prefer it savory, like cultured sour cream, but my sister puts granola and berries in it. Very versatile, and I think the rennet helps hold everything together better. I've never had it last more than maybe 10 days, but I would guess you could get 14-21 days from it. at ten days there is no separation.   

Online Shane

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Re: Splitting yoghurt
« Reply #7 on: March 23, 2015, 03:51:01 PM »
Thanks Guys. I'll try again on the weekend. I think what I made last is destined for mango frozen yoghurt. Will see how that turns out.

Shane

Offline awakephd

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Re: Splitting yoghurt
« Reply #8 on: March 23, 2015, 03:54:10 PM »
This is the first time I have heard of skyr, but I already like it. :)

Based on the Wikipedia entry (which of course is the most reliable source on the planet, right??), it sounds like it is essentially yoghurt thickened with a bit of rennet and strained. Does that match your experience of it? I have tried adding a bit of rennet to my yoghurt makes, but decided I liked it better without -- actually seemed to get less separation when I didn't use it.

A couple of additional notes from the wiki entry:

Quote
Skyr may be used in a traditional Icelandic dish called hræringur (meaning "stirred" or "made by stirring") which consists of roughly equal amounts of skyr and porridge. It is often mixed with jam or fruit for a dessert, with prepared fish for dinner, or with cereals for breakfast.

Have you had the hræringur? I wonder what variety of porridge (what type of grain) they use. Maybe I should experiment with some of my yoghurt and some oatmeal ... which reminds me that my brother talked about some dish that was made with yoghurt, oatmeal, and dried fruit. Hmm ... definitely need to check this out.

Another quote from Wikipedia:

Quote
In Norway today, skyr is also used as a term for other variants of cultured milk products - usually byproducts from cheese production. In its traditional use, it was diluted with water when used as a beverage, or mixed with milk and crumbs of flat-bread as a quick meal.

The note about making it into a drink, diluted with water, sounds similar to the Turkish ayran -- basically yoghurt, water, and salt. I love the stuff, though I haven't convinced many of my friends/relatives to give it a try. :)
-- Andy

Offline OzzieCheese

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Re: Splitting yoghurt
« Reply #9 on: March 23, 2015, 08:44:43 PM »
@Shane,  Not sure what style of yoghurt you are making but this is the method I use the tangy culture from here

http://www.greenlivingaustralia.com.au/yoghurt.html

I also just use their cultures
http://www.greenlivingaustralia.com.au/yoghurt_culture.html#yoghurtculture

Postage for a single culture is a bit stiff but I can get some - they are just up the road from me - and Post it to you locally - if You like just PM me with your address.  The culture will survive the short postage period.

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Offline OzzieCheese

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Re: Splitting yoghurt
« Reply #10 on: March 23, 2015, 08:53:04 PM »
Just an aside.  I use this to make my yoghurt
http://www.dreampot.com.au/

They are a be pricey but they really do a very good job. I prepare the yoghurt using GLA's culture and method in saucepan with a detachable handle (Tefal) and place boiling water in the top pan - thats is the heat sink - and leave it overnight.  Best Yoghurt EVER !

I have also used it for Cream cheeses and a Lactic cheese where a long time at a constant temp - within reason - is needed.  This doesn't have power it works on extremely efficient insulation and the water when I take it out in the morning is still close to 40 degrees.

I'll do a Photo session next time I make it to show my method.

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Online Shane

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Re: Splitting yoghurt
« Reply #11 on: March 23, 2015, 10:15:33 PM »
Hi Mal,

Thanks very much for the offer. It's very kind of you. At the moment I think I'll play around with live yoghurt from the supermarket as a starter. It should work, I'm just doing things wrong. If I'm not successful there I'll grab some of the Mad Millie starter from the supplier which is about 10 minutes drive from here. It is not as cheap, but I should be able to use the yoghurt to start the subsequent batches.

That pot looks brilliant, but I was retrenched recently, so I'm trying to be cheap at the moment. It'd be ideal for my camper trailer too though. An item to buy down the track.

I'm presently straining my dodgy yoghurt and will make it into frozen mango yoghurt shortly. I think I'll blend it first to make it a bit smoother.

All the best.

Shane


Online Shane

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Re: Splitting yoghurt
« Reply #12 on: March 24, 2015, 12:49:16 AM »
Mal - Aldi had a 5L one of those pots for $99 last Saturday. Not sure if they still have them.

Shane

Offline awakephd

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Re: Splitting yoghurt
« Reply #13 on: March 24, 2015, 07:45:43 AM »
Mal, that pot looks like a winner! I haven't seen anything like that advertised here in the US, but then again, I watch very little TV and skip over ads when reading, so I may easily have missed it.

The discussion about skyr led me to look up "yoghurt oats," aka "summer porridge," aka "refrigerator oatmeal": http://www.theyummylife.com/Refrigerator_Oatmeal. I gave it a try, using my own adaptation of the recipe:

1/4+ cup old-fashioned oatmeal, uncooked
1-1/2 tsp flax meal (ground flax seed -- just what I happened to have on hand)
1/4 cup milk (2% was what I had on hand)
1/3 cup yoghurt (freshly made from whole milk, not strained but naturally quite thick)
1 Tbs dried cranberries
1 tsp honey
pinch salt

Mix it up and leave it in the fridge overnight. The next morning (this morning, in fact), prepare to go straight to heaven -- it was fantastic! Super creamy, rich texture, but with a nice chew from the oatmeal; just slightly sweet. I am definitely making this again, and plan to experiment with other combinations and flavors!
-- Andy