Whole Foods Camembert

[Dinerdish]

I was on a short family vacation in Baltimore and there was a Whole Foods near our hotel. I bought 7or 8 little bits of cheese to take home since they have a much better selection than I have around my house. I also bought a Camembert to compare my own with. I had my doubts, since the cheese guy didn't seem that knowledgeable. He didn't understand my question about whether the Cam was stabilized, but the cheese was from Normandy and seemed nicely ripe so I went for it. Some of the stuff I bought was funky, washed rind cheese which I put in an airtight container right away -don't scold me, it is the price of familial harmony! But still something was stinking up the fridge. Well, it was the Cam. I was kind of shocked at how pungent and cabbagey it tasted. It tasted good but more along the lines of what I think of as a washed rind muenster or something "footy". Am I now showing my lack of sophistication by being surprised at how an authentic Camembert is supposed to taste? Because my "Cams" don't have that strong a flavor and they don't have the same slightly tacky texture with the little holes like you can see in the picture. If so, then how, using the few ingredients we all seem to agree goes into a standard Cam recipe do I go about getting that big, stinky flavor? Different culture, strain of PC, more Geo? Or is it that ineffable quality of the milk from the Camembert region?.... Or what! Very interesting.


Dinerdish

[Tomer1]

Is it raw milk cam?
I wonder of the source of the wholes.

[FRANCOIS]

It's pasteurised milk.

It's the cultures they use.  They have different versions available in Europe than what you get in the US.  Checkout Coquard to see what you are missing.  You can closely replicate the french versions but you'll have to purchase many cultures to get what you need to mix together.

[linuxboy]

IIRC, those are Cargill cultures, from Cargill texturizing, which has a plant in France. I don't know which specifically, but likely a mix of geo, PC, and one of the aromatizing cultures, like FAA4. I've only had this once, so I don't recall the flavor/aroma.

The source is a single plant in Normandy. It is stabilized, and the moisture is lower than a traditional cam. Pretty classic stabilized approach: wrap at 10-11 days, put into a refrigerated reefer, and it matures in transit en route to the port and then to the US. Low moisture and high calcium due to high drain pH mean these tend to last well into the 90 day window.

[FRANCOIS]

That would be a partially stabilised make, not fully.  It's far too broken down for a full stabilised.

[ArnaudForestier]

Are fully stabilized bries, cams made entirely with s. thermo., in place of the meso cocci?

[linuxboy]

Yes, right, Francois. I used it only in contrast that it is not straight classic meso, it's a crafted make to balance flavor formation and proteolysis with shelf life.

Arnaud, cam types run the gamut for culture, rennet pH, target pH, etc. There are traditional makes, solubilized, full stabilized, partial stabilized, UF, etc. The French have been very creative with the approaches. If you're really curious, I can post makes for all the variants (in several months, maybe August)

[ArnaudForestier]

Thanks, Pav.  Just came across stabilized cams and bries in Kosikowski's text, and saw it mentioned as well in Dixon's journals.  Kosikowski mentions s. thermo, in whole or in part replacement for the meso cocci, so I was curious - having begun the texts, I'm currently interested specifically in the growth and lysis properties (and associated enzymatic contributions) of the different SLABs, under different conditions (e.g., in a soft v. hard cheese). 

[Dinerdish]

Francois,
I have browsed the Coquard site and there are many more choices for all categories of supplies. Has anyone had experience ordering from the United States? All the prices are "on request" and from a casual look I didn't see minimum order sizes or shipping costs.

Linuxboy,
What are aromatizing cultures? Are they used mostly in stabilized cheeses?

Dinerdish

[linuxboy]

Aroma cultures are complex blends of yeasts, molds, and bacteria (sometimes all three, sometimes not) that are designed to create complex flavors in cheese. They're designed to create replicable, consistent results without having a single cave dedicated to a single type of cheese. For example, you can have geo, DH, and kluyvermyces in a blend that you use in combination with candidum to create a specific type of rind on a cheese. All the makers have them. Danisco's line has ones like ORF and PLA. Cargill's are ones like FAA4, etc.

You can use them in any and all cheeses.

[FRANCOIS]

Francois,
I have browsed the Coquard site and there are many more choices for all categories of supplies. Has anyone had experience ordering from the United States? All the prices are "on request" and from a casual look I didn't see minimum order sizes or shipping costs.

If you call them from the US they will tell you to call Fromagex, who are the dealer for them in the western hemisphere.  I have never tried to get culture from them, although their ready made mixes for certain cheeses have always intrigued me.