Author Topic: anyone tried to make something like epoisses  (Read 4484 times)

Offline Sing_cheese

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anyone tried to make something like epoisses
« on: January 06, 2009, 08:21:48 AM »
My "holy grail" in Cheesemaking is to make soft washed rine cheeses in the style of Epoisses.  I have one batch of muenster going at the moment.  think some of the process should be similar at least in regards to early development and orange bacteria (B. Linens).  I just waxed these without too much success with the bacteria showing.  I have also done  a Cammbert like version with B. Linens and have been washing it e3very other day with Marc (de Champaigne in this case - only Marc I could find in Singapore).  Results do not look promising (despite an interesting aroma).

I have expermented with very slow rennetting (18, 12, 6 hours) as indicated by some of the research that I have done.  I have had no success with this (always gave me sour very weak curds that did not look healthy enough to work with).  I have recently looked at using a brie recipe and working more on the aging and daily care aspect.  I figure that if I can create a good soft cheese of about 3-4 weeks to maturity, I can refine the curd making after getting this nearer the goal (and at least have something edible to show for my work).

I am thinking it may require a closed, very high humudity environment for bacteria growth and a rather cold ~45f environment. Perhaps I will try the plastic boxes that I use for growing bloomy camemberts.  Has anyone had any experience in trying for this style of cheese? If so any pointers would be appreciated.

 I have cheese making logs and notes of several attempts and so far only a couple of funky muensters and some hard as hockey pucks (yet smelly) disks that I am sure are not the consistancy I am looking for.

If any one is interested in collaberating on making this kind of chesse I would welcome sharing the logs of my failures as well.

Thanks,

Gerrit


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Offline John (CH)

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Re: anyone tried to make something like epoisses
« Reply #2 on: January 06, 2009, 04:51:36 PM »
Hello Old Dutch Cheese in New York and welcome to the forum!

Checked out the Heine-n-Nellie cheese making blog in your signature line, you sure have been making a huge range of cheese, most look wonderful, (a few not so), welcome to the forum appreciate any more advice you have!
« Last Edit: January 06, 2009, 04:59:24 PM by Cheese Head »

Offline Sing_cheese

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Re: anyone tried to make something like epoisses
« Reply #3 on: January 06, 2009, 07:05:12 PM »
Oude Kass,

Funny you should suggest that book.  I ordered from Amozon a week ago and my daughter is bringing it back to singapore when she comes on the weekend.  She said over the phone that she had check it out and thought we had finally found "the book" we needed.  I look forward to getting my hands on it when she gets back,

Will try a bit warmer environment as well for the B linens.  How do you keep the cheese soft?  One of my  problems is the resulting cheese is like a hockey puck after about 2 weeks, cant imaging that it will ever sften up and be edible.

Gerrit
Gerrit @ Urban Farmstead Singapore

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Offline Sing_cheese

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Re: anyone tried to make something like epoisses
« Reply #4 on: January 06, 2009, 09:12:14 PM »
I have tried to age my Epoisses tries at around 46f at 80% humidity and even with regular washings they have become very hard and not runny at all.  I have also tried using B linens in the milk and spraying.  what are you doing to different to make the cheese not hard.  My comment on the other thread regarding trying them in plastic boxes for the first few days was an idea to keep them soft. 

Also, when you used lactic acid renetting (with a small anount of rennet) for 16+ hours, did you get a curd formed below a layer of whey and some top floating sourish scum?  This was my result and I did not trust the underlying curd so I dumped it.  Also what sort of temp did you do the extended lactic acid renneting?  I am in Singapore and have tried doing it both at the ambient evening temp (86f) and have tried it in my cave that is mimicing high latitude ambient room temp (72f) and both times had the same smelly results. Also I was using 6-8 drops of veg rennet.  Are you using animal rennet instead (I have not tried this yet and am not sure if it will make a difference).

Thanks,

Gerrit
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Offline Oude Kaas

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Re: anyone tried to make something like epoisses
« Reply #5 on: January 07, 2009, 07:41:11 AM »
I keep my aging cave and fridges at 90% rh minimum.
Some very helpful and hands on information can be found in: http://www.dairyfoodsconsulting.com/publications.shtml
I really recommend it.
I do get a lactic curd. The scum you refer to might be fat floating on top which happens when using non-homogenized cows milk. You can ladle this off and use it as sour cream. Because goat milk is naturally homogenized, this does not happen. Some cow breeds have smaller fat particles and it is less likely to occur.
I use animal rennet, but I also manage to establish a curd without any rennet.
If the pH is high in the milk you are using (late lactation or mastitis) it might be hard to get a lactic curd.

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Offline Cartierusm

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Re: anyone tried to make something like epoisses
« Reply #6 on: January 09, 2009, 03:30:13 AM »
Any pics of these kind of cheese?
Life is like a box of chocolates sometimes too much rennet makes you kill people.

Offline Oude Kaas

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Re: anyone tried to make something like epoisses
« Reply #7 on: January 09, 2009, 07:36:00 AM »

Offline Cartierusm

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Re: anyone tried to make something like epoisses
« Reply #8 on: January 09, 2009, 11:23:11 PM »
Are you sure that's not an alien head? LOL Looks interesting. Any more pics of your cave, how big is it looks nice.
Life is like a box of chocolates sometimes too much rennet makes you kill people.

Offline Oude Kaas

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Re: anyone tried to make something like epoisses
« Reply #9 on: January 10, 2009, 09:54:29 AM »
Go to http://heinennellie.blogspot.com/ and browse the archive.


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Offline Cartierusm

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Re: anyone tried to make something like epoisses
« Reply #10 on: January 11, 2009, 07:48:25 PM »
Oude, you've got a hell of an operation there. Your cheese are very very impressive. I have a couple questions if you don't mind.

1. I see you have mold and bacteria cheese in the same cave as your gouda and regular cheese do you find that they cross contaiminate?

2. By having the cheese directly on the wood do you find the bottom of the cheese stays wet?

3. How do you keep the cheese cloth on your cheese press from creating wrinkles or a divit on the top where the follower goes?
Life is like a box of chocolates sometimes too much rennet makes you kill people.

Offline Oude Kaas

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Re: anyone tried to make something like epoisses
« Reply #11 on: January 11, 2009, 10:10:32 PM »
Thanks for the compliments.
In answer to your questions: no, I don't have cross contaminations, although I do keep blue cheeses separate and I do wash the hard rind cheeses regularly (I do not wax).
If you turn the cheeses regularly, at least daily or once every other day for the first four or five weeks, they are fine.
For the last two times of redressing the cheese with the cloth during pressing, I do not dress the top face of the cheese. The cloth hangs over the hoop and the follower sits directly on the cheese.

Offline Cartierusm

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Re: anyone tried to make something like epoisses
« Reply #12 on: January 12, 2009, 12:23:15 AM »
Thanks good to know. I noticed your list of books you recommend, where did you get all the recipes you seem to make all sort of interesting cheeses?
Life is like a box of chocolates sometimes too much rennet makes you kill people.

Offline Oude Kaas

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Re: anyone tried to make something like epoisses
« Reply #13 on: January 12, 2009, 07:39:42 PM »
I use some from here:
http://www.dairyfoodsconsulting.com/recipes.shtml

I have used recipes from Margaret Morris's book, Kosikokowski's book (see the list on my blog) and various other procedures for cheeses I have found in the books I list. A lot of these procedures are very rudimental, but with some know how of the cheese making process, they are a good basis for working a recipe.

Offline Cartierusm

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Re: anyone tried to make something like epoisses
« Reply #14 on: January 12, 2009, 08:18:00 PM »
Thanks.
Life is like a box of chocolates sometimes too much rennet makes you kill people.