Author Topic: morfeo's Raclette Using Brevibacterium linens > Salinometer Discussion  (Read 19607 times)

iratherfly

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Re: morfeo's Raclette Using Brevibacterium linens > Salinometer Discussion
« Reply #30 on: August 02, 2011, 02:56:55 PM »
will the bacteria survive in a 100% salt brine or needs to be a different percentage?
Wouldn't 100% salt brine just be dry salt...with no water? What do you really mean?

-Boofer-
Yes, a brine that is made with 100% salt is just ...salt.

When reffering to brine saturation (light medium, heavy), the "heavy"category begins at 18% salt which should be sifficient to kill most pathogens but the cheese bacteria will survive it (especially because it feeds on all the good stuff in the cheese and while the surface is overwhelmed with an antiseptic 18% of salt, the body of the cheese will only absorb about 2% salt so the bacteria is still alive inside).  16% salt is not safe enough to kill all pathogens.  24% is very dense and heavy. It's significantly saltier than 18% but it's thicker and usually used to create a thicker rind faster.

Brine saturation tops of at 26% salt. Why? Simple: Water cannot absorb more than 26% salt. It just stops absorbing it and whatever salt you add over 26% will not dissolve and stay as hard flakes.  You will notice it gets more difficult to dissolve salt when you get closer to 26% and then it becomes impossible.

morfeo

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Re: morfeo's Raclette Using Brevibacterium linens > Salinometer Discussion
« Reply #31 on: August 02, 2011, 03:39:57 PM »
Your right 100% is pure salt I don't know what I was thinking.

how can I calculate the percentage of salt???

Correct me if I'm wrong: lest say that I have a gallon of water that weight 8.3lbs, if I want 18% brine the amount of salt will be 1.494lbs (8.3 x 18 = 149.4/100 = 1.494)
is this correct??

iratherfly

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Re: morfeo's Raclette Using Brevibacterium linens > Salinometer Discussion
« Reply #32 on: August 02, 2011, 04:24:13 PM »
Yes, you can calculate by weight or by volume: 1 part salt to 4.5 parts water; (100-18=82. That's 18 parts salt and 82 parts water.

To find out the ratio divide 82 by 18 and you get approx 4.5 so the ratio is 4.5:1).  That being said, large flakes of salt trap lots of air in them. I also hope you are using pure salt because some salts have anti caking agents added to them and there is also a % of other natural minerals.

The absolute best way to measure salinity is by using a salometer; an inexpensive idiot-proof device. It is essentially nothing more than a glass buoy with marks on its side that indicate the salt level based on how well it floats. (Because the more salt you have, the denser/thicker are the water and the effects of gravity are reduced). So, the more salt is in your brine, the higher it floats and the number you see is higher.
It's the same principle of floating on the dead sea (which is 18% salt as oppose to 3.5% in a normal ocean, where you don't float) or, if you have ever dunked your cheese in something not salty or light brine, you see that it sinks to the bottom immediately. At 16% salt, the brine is dense enough to float the cheese so its top side is just slightly below the water line. At 18% the top side of the cheese is just touching or slightly over the water line. At 24% half the cheese is immersed and the other half if above the water.  Makes sense?

You can get those on eBay or Amazon for about $20. They are non chemical and non mechanical, they never need replacing or calibrating, but they are rather fragile. Here's my salometer in a pitcher of 18% brine:
« Last Edit: August 02, 2011, 04:32:49 PM by iratherfly »

Offline Boofer

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Re: morfeo's Raclette Using Brevibacterium linens > Salinometer Discussion
« Reply #33 on: August 02, 2011, 07:34:21 PM »
IRF, thanks for taking the time to clarify all this.

I've been putting off getting a salinometer.

-Boofer-
Let's ferment something!
Bread, beer, wine, cheese...it's all good.

morfeo

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Re: morfeo's Raclette Using Brevibacterium linens > Salinometer Discussion
« Reply #34 on: August 02, 2011, 08:03:11 PM »
Thank you for your help.

I just wanted to know how to calculate the amount of salt by weight and you clear my mind.
 
I have a hydrometer at home (the one that I use for my reef tank) I'll get a new one this weekend.

I'll keep post on my new raclette.

iratherfly

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Re: morfeo's Raclette Using Brevibacterium linens > Salinometer Discussion
« Reply #35 on: August 03, 2011, 06:10:48 AM »
Morfeo - Would love to see that Raclette when it's time!

Boofer - get one. It's not urgent but certainly useful to have and it never gets inaccurate. (In theory it will work forever but the glass ones will break if you drop them; that's the only way to end their lifecycle).
Get a short one. I first got a long one and it was really annoying to find a measuring pipe that fit instead of dropping it in the brine bowl which was too low or using it with a small sample in a small pipe or tall juice glass.

Matfer makes a good one that is relatively short (7 7/8" so somewhere around the length of a pencil). These guys sell it for $15:  http://www.culinarycookware.com/salometer.html
« Last Edit: August 03, 2011, 06:16:29 AM by iratherfly »

morfeo

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Re: morfeo's Raclette Using Brevibacterium linens > Salinometer Discussion
« Reply #36 on: August 03, 2011, 12:41:04 PM »
Boofer here is another website, here you can find the hydrometer and the pipe to do the test, some of those hydrometer have a thermometer on the center that is very useful on my aquarium I don't know if it matters if your are going to use it jut for the brine.

http://www.midwestsupplies.com/winemaking-equipment/measuring-testing/hydrometers-refractometers.html

or if you want you cant try this one too, since is made out of plastic is almost unbreakable is for aquariums but the function is the same it will give you two types of measure the salinity on the water one is the specific gravity and the other is the salinity PPT (Parts Per Thousand) this one is very simple to use too.

http://www.fosterandsmithaquatics.com/product/prod_display.cfm?pcatid=4945

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Re: morfeo's Raclette Using Brevibacterium linens > Salinometer Discussion
« Reply #37 on: August 03, 2011, 02:57:44 PM »
Thanks guys.

-Boofer-
Let's ferment something!
Bread, beer, wine, cheese...it's all good.

iratherfly

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Re: morfeo's Raclette Using Brevibacterium linens > Salinometer Discussion
« Reply #38 on: August 03, 2011, 05:44:01 PM »
morfeo, it's not a hydrometer it's a salometer.

Hydrometer - meters hydration

salometer - meters salinity

morfeo

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Re: morfeo's Raclette Using Brevibacterium linens > Salinometer Discussion
« Reply #39 on: August 03, 2011, 05:47:32 PM »
 :o I'm sorry I think the rest of the world is incorrect too!!!!
Is the same with two different names, the function of the salometer and the hydrometer is to measure the specific gravity on a liquid.

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/salometer
http://www.google.com/search?q=hydrometer&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&client=firefox-a
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hydrometer
« Last Edit: August 03, 2011, 05:55:25 PM by morfeo »

iratherfly

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Re: morfeo's Raclette Using Brevibacterium linens > Salinometer Discussion
« Reply #40 on: August 03, 2011, 06:06:32 PM »
Let me clarify...
Hydrometer is a general device description. Usually when you get one, it can measure all kinds of scales of hydration vs density (oil in water, milk in water, calcium in water, acid in water etc). These require different calibration schedule that is based on temperature or atmospheric conditions.

Salometer (sometimes called salimeter or salinity meter) does the same thing, but it is only tuned to check one thing: salt gravity in water. Nothing else. Typically it will include the entire useful scale of salt gravity in water - from 0% to 26% which is fully saturated.

One more comment:
The aquarium hydrometer device in the link you posted would not work for cheesemaking. It only goes up to 40 PPT which is 4% (makes sense because the highest you would go in an aquarium setting 3.5%-3.8% salt - to mimic seawater). Also, when shopping around you will find some refractometers or brix meters (they measure the concentration of sugars) which also double up as salometers. These snazzy devices look very cool and are deadly accurate. They have an eyepiece and you only put a tiny amount of sample brine or syrup in them and hold them against the light.  DO NOT be tempted to get these. First off, they only go to 100 PPT which is 10% salt. Secondly, some of them need to be calibrated to temperature.

The device I suggested is really idiot proof and will measure reliably any brine at any temperature and never needs any calibration or maintenance.  Worth the $15

linuxboy

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Re: morfeo's Raclette Using Brevibacterium linens > Salinometer Discussion
« Reply #41 on: August 03, 2011, 06:07:15 PM »
Yoav, they're exactly the same. A salometer is a hydrometer that has a salinity scale on it, standardized to measurements at about room temp. In fact, it's perfectly acceptable to use a regular beer/wine hydrometer (you know, those cheap $8 dealies) for measuring your brine strength. They both measure SG. No difference, except that piece of paper they slip inside that has the graduations on it. We even had a thread about this.

http://cheeseforum.org/forum/index.php/topic,2081.msg19148.html#msg19148

[edit] You beat me to it. :). Still, I see nothing wrong with using a regular bulb type wine/beer hydrometer. Laminate the chart I posted and put by one's measuring station, or memorize the equivalencies, and works just as well. Or, alternatively, get an electronic salinity meter (nothing like having to calibrate two probes when making cheese :P )

iratherfly

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Re: morfeo's Raclette Using Brevibacterium linens > Salinometer Discussion
« Reply #42 on: August 03, 2011, 06:12:59 PM »
Not the one I've seen Pav. they have 3 or 4 different scales on them and instructions on how to calibrate them. I have a simple one that only does salt levels and shows a % scale on one side and Baumé gravity scale on the opposite side.  As I said a salometer is one of a million different types of hydrometers. Hydrometer is a very generic name. Sure, you can check salinity with a device made to measure alcohol, sugar or acid, but if all you are doing is checking salt - get the device that has the salt numbers on it and don't convert/calibrate

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Salinometer
Quote
a salinometer often consist of an ec meter or hydrometer and some means of converting those readings to a salinity reading.
« Last Edit: August 03, 2011, 06:21:41 PM by iratherfly »

linuxboy

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Re: morfeo's Raclette Using Brevibacterium linens > Salinometer Discussion
« Reply #43 on: August 03, 2011, 06:37:06 PM »
Yep, yep, totally agree. KISS principle applies :) Just that I've been making beer and wine and liqueurs much longer than cheese, and when I needed to measure brine salinity levels, I didn't want to buy yet another type of hydrometer (I think I have 5 already), so I repurposed one and use a conversion chart. Others who have multiple interests might be in a similar situation. I love the simplicity of the salometer.

iratherfly

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Re: morfeo's Raclette Using Brevibacterium linens > Salinometer Discussion
« Reply #44 on: August 03, 2011, 06:53:44 PM »
And remember, you are talking to a guy who would rather throw away great cheese than having to take a few minutes to calibrate at a pH meter  ;)

Oh, if only there was a pH meter as simple as salometer.  (and don't get me started on acidometers and Dornic acidity degrees. I have been working with old literature that is pre pH meters and have to convert all those °D to pH. Drives me nuts)