Asiago - Post Pressing/Pre-Brining pH & Starter Culture Discussion

[BigCheese]

I have asked a few questions on an Asiago thread I started months ago, but nobody has replied so I am thinking it may not be showing up prominently. Anyway, I have an asiago pressing. Peter Dixon says after pressing overnight, leave at 50-55F for 24 hours then brine. Ricki Carrol says to go the extra 24 hours at 75-85, or at least she forgets to say to chill it.... I have 3 questions:

Which should I do?
What is a good finishing PH for Asiago?
Are there any steps that need to be taken to prevent the rind from drying out too much and not absorbing salt sufficiently?

Thank you!

[linuxboy]

Ricki Carrol says to go the extra 24 hours at 75-85

Depends on the TA strain. Some are slow, some do OK at a lower temp, some don't. You should target about 5.1 for finish. A bit lower is OK, too, provided that you drained at ~6.3.

Up to you. What's the pH now? I tend to use slower cultures, so I leave most cheeses for 12-24 hours at ambient 65F temps. Similar for Asiago.

Keep humidity up, at least 50% if you're letting it sit. Salting should be fine. If you're really paranoid, cut down the brine to 20-22% to increase salt uptake.

[BigCheese]

I used TA61 and LH100. Will check the PH in a few minutes.  I did not check at draining (stupid) but at renneting it was only 6.67, which is pretty high, but I figured it might be good since it is supposed to acidify quite slowly.

A few days ago I made my biggest wheel yet, with the St Paulin mold filled absolutely to the very tippy top. It is a very good looking pepper jack. 10lbs 6.5oz. Will post a picture soon.

Thanks as always Pav. Hope your doing well.

[BigCheese]

Well PAv, I hope you see this tonight Just tested PH and it was 5. I pulled it out of the oven where I was pressing (maintaining 72F) and am thinking I may want to go ahead and brine. But thought I would post here first. What does this mean for my flavor? It seems like all my cheeses acidify a bit quckly. Will have to start using less culture for everything.

[linuxboy]

That's fine, will make a great cheese. Go ahead and brine

In terms of flavor, it's about the same. The tipping point isn't at 5.1 or 4.9, but at 4.8 and below. 5.1 is good. 5.0 is OK, too. TA 60 series is a pretty fast acidifier. Not a bad thing, means it's reliable. But also means you can use less.

[BigCheese]

Can I say that I love you?

How are the cheese books coming along?

By the way, do you do classes? I have a friend wanting to get into cheese and she is in Chehalis. Is that near you?

[BigCheese]

I just made a new Asiago, this time with significantly less culture. Everything seems pretty good except that now, after ~28 hours at room temp, the PH seems to be dropping extremely slowly. At ~11 am I tested 5.35. Now, at 6:30pm I tested 5.32. I guess I am going to leave it overnight again, but it seems extremely slow right now. It's probably been around low 60s in the room all day today. Any advice, LB?

[linuxboy]

Didn't see your earlier message. Books are slow going, but I have a good understanding of the content I want to cover and have a ton of papers organized. I'll do a series of classes before I leave here this fall, one last push. Chehalis is pretty far though, two hours.

5.3 is not the end of the world, but it means you didn't use enough culture and/or rennetted too early. If you rennetted too early, you'll have high mineralization, and the flavor development will be rather slow. And if you didn't use enough culture, same thing, slow flavor development. Without enough bacteria, there are not enough enzymes from bacterial death, and it takes a while to build flavor. Not the end of the world, keep it warm for a while longer, check it in the morning, and by that point, you should brine.

[BigCheese]

got it, Thanks! I do think either Ricki or Peter Dixon has it go for two full nights, so there may be hope for me yet! I'll keep it in mind to let this one age a while longer.

[linuxboy]

Honestly, pH is a little deceptive when you have a high drain pH because the bacteria keep producing acid, and so the meter will pick it up. But the cheese after all the curds fuse, it has a ton of calcium in it. And after drain, what you're trying to balance is the degree of solubilization of the caseins in the micelles, as well as residual lactose. So long as the lactose is converted, and you got the drain pH right, you're set, the final acidity will figure itself out. In this case, I'm concerned over your culture amount and residual lactose. So long as the cheese is warm and acidity keeps dropping, you'll be alright. An extra day of fermentation should not make a huge difference so long as the milk was clean.

[BigCheese]

Good to know. For ~10.5gallons skim milk (maybe 2 days old) I used 1/8t TA61 and 3/64t LH100. renneted at 45minutes but did not test PH at that time. We'll see what happens

[Sailor Con Queso]

Nitai - I use a 20%/80% blend of TA61 & LH100 on my Italian types. So to me your ratio of cultures is backwards. Just the style I've learned.

[BigCheese]

Doh! I'll switch it. After all, you are you, and I am me...

[linuxboy]

Try it both ways and see which you like better. The mix here is about balancing acid rate with rate of flavor development.

more ST =  faster acid development, but there's a balance. Around 70 ST/30% bacilli is going to be your fastest acid blend, faster than either of those alone. And on the other side, more bacilli up front tends to accelerate ripening a bit. But remember, that bacilli keep multiplying for many weeks in the cheese, so they tend to find equilibrium after extended ripening. That initial population size does affect the way flavor develops because if you have more bacteria at the onset, the rate of protein degradation will be faster.

[Sailor Con Queso]

Nitai - I didn't mean to suggest that your ratio is wrong, just different than mine. As LB says, the TA-61 (= Strep. thermophilus or ST) is a strong acidifier that works synergistically with the LH blend. Both your approach and mine can produce great cheeses. However, your pH curve and mine will be very different. Because you are using more TA61, your cheese is going to acidify much quicker than mine. I like to drain my Asiago at a pH of 6.2 and then hoop. For me, that's usually about 4-1/2 hours into the make. With your mix you would reach target faster. The pH obviously drops drastically after hooping (and is why cheeses with ST can aggressively stick to cheesecloth).

In the long run though the ST is a great acidifier but is not good at proteolysis. That's where the LH (LactoBACILLUS lactis and Lb. helveticus come in. They are the predominant force in flavor and texture development so that's why I favor the higher ratio of LH. Just to clarify, bacilli are also called rods. I have read comments from older cheesemakers about adding more "rods" to their cheese, even if they didn't know the scientific names.

The TA and LH cultures are normally used together for another reason. Although the ST is a good acidifier, it does an incomplete job of converting lactose to lactic acid and starts to die (and release enzymes) earlier. Again, that's where the LH steps in, completes the lactic conversion, and finds it's own equilibrium. That also means that the LH stays active longer and is responsible for the final acidity.

So, it's just a matter of style. I have always made mine this way, but as LB suggests it would be interesting to make Asiago both ways and compare the finished flavors.