Author Topic: Wrapping and Storing Wrapped Camemberts  (Read 2816 times)

Offline Sing_cheese

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Wrapping and Storing Wrapped Camemberts
« on: January 06, 2009, 08:51:52 PM »
having finally made some decent (looking) camemberts, I do not want to go down the wrong track in wrapping and aging them further.  I have 2 batches that are very bloomy after about 12 days and I plan on wrapping them in propper cheese paper this time.  I assume that you wrap with the shiny side out (correct??) and then I need to store them in my cheese cave. What is the optimum temp and humidity for storing them and how closely can you store them once wrapped?  I assume I cannot stack them on top of each other, but this would save a lot of room. Any advice on how best to age these once wrapped would be much appreciated.

Thanks,

Gerrit
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Offline Tea

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Re: Wrapping and Storing Wrapped Camemberts
« Reply #1 on: January 07, 2009, 02:34:09 PM »
Hi Gerrit, I haven't used those wrappers, but from what I understand, yes the shiny side out.
I was reading the other day, that once the bloom is complete, the cheeses could be stored in a regular fridge and should be ready to eat between 4-6 weeks.  My book says that storage temps of between 11-15 C, but I have also read of temps between 9-11 C, and from my experiences I think the colder temps work better than warmer.  Also air exchange seems also to be inportant, so I agree, I wouldn't stack them.
Hope your cheeses age well.  Keep us posted.

Offline Likesspace

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Re: Wrapping and Storing Wrapped Camemberts
« Reply #2 on: January 07, 2009, 09:33:51 PM »
Gerrit,
I agree 100% with the advice that Tea just gave you. I am yet to turn out a proper Camembert, but I recently got advice from a person that has had success (goes by the name FineWino...I'm sure you recognize the "nick") and this was the exact same advice he gave me.
Right now I have four cheeses in the regular household fridge, aging at 39 degrees F.
Within another two weeks I'll begin opening them up and testing at various ages.
I really want this cheese to turn out since I will then try John's recipe for Cambozola.
I pretty much agree with him that this is the "holy grail" of cheese.

Dave

Offline Cartierusm

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Re: Wrapping and Storing Wrapped Camemberts
« Reply #3 on: January 09, 2009, 03:29:41 AM »
Gerrit, let us know once you figure out for sure about "shiny side out". Also I wouldn't think you would want to stack because the point of the wrapper is to pull unecessary moisture away from the cheese and if they were stacked...you get the point. I would just store them in your regular frig.
Life is like a box of chocolates sometimes too much rennet makes you kill people.

Offline Sing_cheese

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Re: Wrapping and Storing Wrapped Camemberts
« Reply #4 on: January 12, 2009, 02:09:08 AM »
Cartirer,

After making several batches of white spotted hockey pucks, I do not want to screw this up.  The ones I wrapped last week are looking nice.  I have 4 batches to be wrapped in the coming days (blue camemberts and regular camemberts using Ezal M4001 and Ezal M11 for starters).  THey are comming along well. and hate throwing away and/or eating Camempucks.

Another quick question - I made a batch of Talleggio this weekend and the recipe calls for "Cheeses are wrapped in sulfur-coated paper and stored at 38 F until ready for sale at 60 days of age".  Is the standard cheese paper that we purchase through the internet (e.g., NE cheesemaking or thecheesemaker.com), sulfur coated?

pics of Bcam and cam.

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Offline Cartierusm

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Re: Wrapping and Storing Wrapped Camemberts
« Reply #5 on: January 12, 2009, 01:07:14 PM »
If it is the paper for wash rind cheese then yes, if it's the paper for camenbert then no.
Life is like a box of chocolates sometimes too much rennet makes you kill people.

Offline Sing_cheese

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Re: Wrapping and Storing Wrapped Camemberts
« Reply #6 on: January 18, 2009, 07:43:31 AM »
Opend the first of the Camemberts that seem to be aging properly at 3 weeks (one week in wraps).  Looks pretty, but still young.  soft but firm paste still, and quite chalky.  Still better than my Cam hockey pucks. how long from this stage to really soft inside. Aging in 45f cave.

Gerrit
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Offline Tea

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Re: Wrapping and Storing Wrapped Camemberts
« Reply #7 on: January 18, 2009, 02:54:43 PM »
Well Sing I have to say that your's look much better than mine did at that stage.  Optimum ripening age is supposed to be somewhere between 4-6 weeks.  That of course is if you have done everything else right before then.   :D  Good luck, they look very encouraging.

Offline Likesspace

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Re: Wrapping and Storing Wrapped Camemberts
« Reply #8 on: January 21, 2009, 09:47:16 PM »
Hi guys...
I made another batch of Camembert this past weekend and I have high hopes for this cheese...
I started to notice fuzz starting at the three day mark and today....day four.... there is a nice layer on probably 3/4 of the surface.
Things I did differently with this batch:
1. got a great curd (see my post on warming the milk slowly).
2. Left the cheese at room temperature for 24 hours AFTER salting (a suggestion from another cheesemaker that specializes in surface ripened cheese).
3. Doing the initial ripening at a slightly higher temperature (approx. 55 degrees F) from a post by Tea, that gave me the idea.
Once I wrap this cheese (quite possibly by the weekend if the mold contines to grow at this rate) I will then place it in our household fridge and keep it at approx. 38 degrees F for 4 to 6 weeks.
I've decided that this is a cheese that is made correctly through trial and error.
This batch might not turn out perfectly but there's no doubt that I will learn something else in the process.

Dave

Offline Tea

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Re: Wrapping and Storing Wrapped Camemberts
« Reply #9 on: January 22, 2009, 02:34:25 PM »
Great work Dave, and best of luck with this batch.  Did you add any Geo that has been talked about in some of the posts?
Keep the pics coming, I want to see this one.


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Offline Likesspace

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Re: Wrapping and Storing Wrapped Camemberts
« Reply #10 on: January 22, 2009, 05:51:35 PM »
Tea,
Yes, I did add Geo but then I've been adding it from my very first batch.
I think my main problems have been associtated with not ripening at a warm enough temp to get the mold growing well, and then ripening at too warm of a temp which caused the uneven ripening.
Only time will tell but at least this is a cheese where you don't have to wait too awfully long to see the results.
I'll snap a couple of photos before I wrap this batch. I haven't checked them yet tonight, but hopefully they've continued to fill in with fuzz.
If this does turn out well, I'm giving Cambozola a try next.

Dave

Offline John (CH)

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Re: Wrapping and Storing Wrapped Camemberts
« Reply #11 on: January 22, 2009, 07:16:01 PM »
Dave, my 5th Camembert Batch has also not worke, no significant white mold coat which I put down to incorrect humidity and temperature. My second and another batch had like Tea good coats in 4 days.

Offline Likesspace

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Re: Wrapping and Storing Wrapped Camemberts
« Reply #12 on: January 22, 2009, 08:28:07 PM »
John...
Just wondering, do you still have this cheese in your crisper?
If so, do you think it would be possible to put it in a "cool room" for a few days, just to see what happens?
I have mine ripening in an unheated closet (off of our master bath of all places) where the temp stays pretty much at 55 degrees during the winter months.
I'm just wondering if the mold might take off if introduced to a bit of a higher temp.
I don't really think your mold has died.....has probably just gone dormant from the cool temps. Maybe a change of climate would get it going.
From what I have been reading, the P. Cad. needs warmer temps to get started and then immediately it needs to go into a cold environment to keep it from ripening the chesse too quickly. Of course this all sounds really good in theory but I'm yet to turn out a proper example.
As an update, nearly the entire surface of my latest batch is now covered with mold.
I plan on wrapping it on Sunday as long as things continue to look good.
One thing I didn't mention is is the moisture content of this particular batch.
Even though the curd was as perfect as I've ever gotten, it was WET when going into the mold.
Not only was it wet going it, it was WET after over 24 hours.
When I lifted the mold off of the cheese, I was afraid to even touch it in fear of it falling apart.
Even while salting, it was nearly impossible to turn the cheese without small pieces breaking off.
Within a few hours of being in the cool room it did firm up nicely. I can now do pretty much everything but juggle the wheels with no fear of them breaking apart.
This is the first time that I've cut the curd while making a Camembert. Before I always ladeled the curd from the vat, with no cutting whatsoever.
The reason that I cut the curd this time was because I always felt that the cheese turned out of the mold too soft from not expelling any whey. The surprise was that it was even softer and more moist than any batch that I've done before.
From here on out, I don't think I will do any cutting of the curd, unless of course this batch turns out perfectly. If that's the case then I'm not doing ANYTHING differently.  ;D
John, let me know if you are able to revive the cheese by moving it to a warmer temperature. I'd like to know if this is something that works.

Dave

Offline Likesspace

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Re: Wrapping and Storing Wrapped Camemberts
« Reply #13 on: January 22, 2009, 08:51:19 PM »
John,
I decided to post the recipe I have been using for Camembert. This is from Schmidling.com.
I have made a few changes to the recipe, over time, but even by following it exactly I have gotten fair results (as far as taste is concerned).
The main changes I have made:
1. I don't add b. linens.
2. I do add whipping cream (16 oz. per two gallons of whole milk)
3. I don't salt NEARLY as heavily as he recommends. I pretty much salt it as I would a plate of tomatoes. I basically just sprinkle it on and then rub it into the surface with my fingers.
4. I leave the cheese at room temp. for 24 hours after salting.
5. I normally don't cut the curd but instead ladle the curd mass directly into the mold.
6. I don't use foil to wrap the cheese...I instead use a proper Camembert wrapping paper that I bought from Leeners.com

After wrapping the cheese I really haven't been concerned at all with the humidity.
I simply place the cheese in the crisper of my fridge and turn it every couple of days. According to my temp/humidity gauge I'm running in the high 30% range.
I did crack one of the wheels a few days ago and I was somewhat happy with the results.
The cheese has been ripening nicely but I still had some very "thin" cheese at the edges. Not a milk like substance (like my first attempt) but more like a very thick yogurt or thin cream cheese.
I'm sure this happened because I left the cheese for a little over a week in a 48 degree environment. It was at that point that I received advice to age the cheese in a very cool environment after wrapping.
By that time I could feel that the cheese out by the edges had already softened.
Anyway, my fingers have gotten away from me, yet again.
Here's the recipe. If you get the chance to give it a try, let me know what you think.

Dave


Camembert/Brie from Schmidling.com

This one gallon batch will make two, 4" cheeses about 1.5" thick when ripe. The recipe is for the cultures I use but you can substitute whatever mesophylic starter you normally use and you need at least one of the camembert cultures.

1 Gallon Homo Milk
1/2 tsp Calcium Chloride

Heat to 90F then add:

1/8 tsp of EZAL Meso culture
1/8 tsp of P. camembert
1/8 tsp of G. camembert
One drop of B. linnens

Ripen for one hour, then add:

1/8 tsp rennet then rest for 2 hrs.

Cut gently and dip the curds into perforated molds about 4" diameter and 8" high, resting on a small plate. A one gallon batch will fill two such molds.

Every few hours, put another plate on top and flip the moulds. In time, they will shrink down to less than 2" thick. By the next day, they should slide freely in the mold and retain their shape when the mold is lifted off.

Measure out 1/4 cup of salt onto a small plate and set a cheese in the salt. Turn the cheese over and put the clean side in the salt. Roll the edges in the salt and then wipe off excess salt and set the cheese on a draining matt and do the same to the other cheese. Handle the cheese gently at this point or it will fall apart and you have a mess. Continue this procedure until most of the salt has been rubbed into the two cheeses.

You now put the cheeses on a plastic or bamboo draining matt cut to fit into a plastic shoebox. Put the lid on the box and leave about a half inch opening and keep in a cool place. Ideally, around 55F and 85% humidity. The shoebox will maintain the humidity as described.

In a week or so they will start to grow the surface mold and after about 10 days will look like white furry hockey pucks. At this point you remove them from this environment and wrap them in foil and put in the fridge for about 20 more days. From here on, you can taste the cheese as it ripens to determine the best time schedule for your taste. By 60 days it will be a shell with white soupe inside so you have to sample it every week or so until you find what works best for you.


Offline John (CH)

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Re: Wrapping and Storing Wrapped Camemberts
« Reply #14 on: January 23, 2009, 05:24:42 AM »
Thanks Likesspace/Dave, good point, obviously my fridge drawer is not working as a good Camembert "Cheese Cave", here in Houston we have no real cool part of the house other as 24x7 AC or heat. Except as now winter here, if we have a cool period, the garage can get cooler, I'll put them in Tupperware there this morning. Once I get a good coat, for longer term aging I either need to find a better cheese cave or order some papers.

I don't add cream, just use cold milk and no problem as you can see with strength of formed cheese, thanks for ideas.