P candidum - Bloom & Ripening Discussion

[mtncheesemaker]

Thanks, Yoav.
The problem is that are never ripe enough in 3-4 weeks. They still have the firm center and I like them to be uniformly ripe all the way through. For that, it always takes me 6 weeks or longer.
I will try not wrapping them and see if that speeds it up. I want them to be ripe faster, it just doesn't happen for me.

[iratherfly]

No, no. We can make this happen. You may have an issue with the form factor.

Do you age it at 90%RH and 55F?
What size curd do you cut?
What's your cheese size? (diameter and height)
Do you dry salt them or brine them?
Are you using non-homogenized whole milk?
Are you adding calcium?
When do you move them to the lower temp fridge? (what day?)

Let's figure this out.  Sometimes they need a 4th week to be "affine" but never 6 weeks in such recipe unless your curd is very small and you use cold temperature (in which case it will be a harder, drier fattier camembert)

[mtncheesemaker]

Hi Yoav;
I use very fresh whole raw Jersey milk, no calcium chloride unless the girls are eating late winter hay.
I use the standard camembert molds, and get 4 cheeses from a 2 gallon batch. They average 12-13 oz each and are about 1.75" x 4.25". I cut the curds into 1/2" pieces and I dry salt.
At the beginning, I had the usual issues with slip skin, which I eliminated with help from this forum. My cams turn out beautiful and delicious, they just don't do it in 3 weeks. Here is a pic.
I age at 50-52F in a box in the converted fridge, and don't move them to the colder one until they are fully ripe.
I can quit wrapping them but I can't really change the temp too much.
Thanks for the help, Yoav.
Pam

[Helen]

I am in the same situation as Pam. I find my camemberts to be ripe (evenly liquid through the center) after 6 to 8 weeks.

I took a look at the AOC specifications and while they say that 3 weeks is the minimum affinage time for  this cheese but it takes longer for a camembert to be fully ready.

That said, I would love to know what I can do to reduce my aging time.

- Helen

[linuxboy]

That said, I would love to know what I can do to reduce my aging time.

Decrease rennet pH to 6.4 and drain at 6.1, target a form factor of no more than 1.75", keep oxygen at 100% during the first week, and use a very proteolytic strain of PC.

[arkc]

Linuxboy, which PC and GC do you use?

arkc

[iratherfly]

Oh Pam I forgot you have this amazing milk!

You can raise the temp slightly to 55F and make sure its dry enough so it won't ammoniate. I just can't understand why it would take so long. Linuxboy made a good point about changing the rennet time. This made me think that a different starter culture can give you different rennet time.  Your recipe calls for MA4001 which is not ideal for Camembert.  Try using MM100 or even Fl-Dn. (I personally use MM100, sometimes I add a pinch of MD89 to give it extra butter and eyes)

very proteolytic strain of PC.

If you haven't done so, try using PC Neige. It's aggressive and has high proteolytic activity.

[mtncheesemaker]

OK, thanks to you both for the suggestions. I'll see if I can speed up the process with those changes.

[Girly stuff]

Hi there Cheesies... I'm from Perth WA. I'm having problems getting my camembert to grow the white mould. After the initial process of making it etc., I put it in a Decor container that has its own rack, place it in the fridge but nothing happens. Have realised maybe the fridge is too cold for it to happen, then tried moving it to a insulated bag with a cool brick etc., it's been nearly 2 weeks now. Still holding its shape, smells fine but still no mould. Going by other comments I should have had the white mould happening by now. What am I doing wrong? Cheers all

[Tiddlypom]

I'm wondering about the air circulation in those Decor containers, is it enough? The rack is only a few mm off the bottom of the container, should I raise it up on something to get better circulation? I'd be interested to hear if anyone else uses them as they seem to be recommended by various cheese ingredients suppliers here in Australia.

[iratherfly]

Any luck by now? Humidity control and temperature are real keys to getting it right.  Having sero growth however could be a sign of other issues such as competing pathogen, antibiotics in the milk or wrong acidity, possibly even too much or too little salt.

Have you used any Geo in making this cheese? How did you salt it?

[Intrepidfred]

I just started home cheese making and I need your help. My first Camembert looked fine until I read this forum. Now I just unwrapped my first batch and it looked like the picture: yellowish brown on the surface and it felt almost liquid inside. The smell was "ok"-not too much ammoniac. Can you tell me if that cheese is good or not? What did I do wrong? The wrapping in special waxed paper? I aged it in a humid plastic container for 8 days and the mold was perfectly white. Should I just tap it and leave it in the box until it's ready to eat? I just unwrapped my Brie and it's still nice and white. I'm going to try and keep in unwrapped. But then should the humidity be kept at 90% after the mold is fully grown or I can just keep them cold in the plastic box?

[iratherfly]

I am a big fan of the no-wrap method. Wrap only after they are totally ripe and ready to be shipped or stored and even then - wrap with porous cellophane, not wax paper or that weird double layered nylon-paper thing. It needs to seriously breathe. Generally it sounds like you may have either not drained the cheese enough or the curd was too large, or you have aged it in overly humid boxes (90% to 95% RH is ideal, not 100%) or in too high a temperature.  Wrapping the cheese is suffocating and may mimic the same effect of a closed box with 100% humidity but is does it even faster.

- Was your cheese liquidy all the way through the center? Or was your center still young and firm?
- What temperature did you age it at for those first 8 days?
- Can you post a photo?

[Intrepidfred]

I think everything was fine with the size of the curd... and it drained properly. I added the mold in the milk (instead of spraying at the end of the process).

The cheese was runny and liquid throughout - not even a hard center. The crust was firm and I was able to break it almost like a banana peel.

My "cave" is a wine fridge, with a temprature of 50F. I was aging it in a container with about 93-95% humidity

[iratherfly]

Hmmm... I wish I could see the inside of this.  The cheese looks good externally. Direct vat inoculation is totally okay here and you don't have to spray. You might have had too much geo or too much initial moisture.

How long did you drain the cheese in the hoop and how long did you let it dry after removing the hoop?  Did it dry in room temperature? When did you salt it? Most of these liquification and rind issues are related to initial drainage and drying or initial moisture in aging.