Beaufort Trials - Experimental Design. Input, Please

[ArnaudForestier]

Sorry, it was a bit off-topic, I was just asking Sailor on the Italian cheeses

Oh, no worries at all, Yoav, thought so, just wanted to be clear, as annie is looking for some guidance on Beaufort, and I didn't want her to get confused.

I just hope you are not trying them all together  

Why not?  These flora are commonly found together in Beaufort rind and morges, so I'm looking forward to playing engineer...

Why MVA and not PLA? 

Because MVA is pure strain micrococcus, s. xylosus, and PLA is a blend.  Two entirely different things.  Why do you make the comparison?

How many wheels do you have that you are going to run all those tests on?

Playing with an intended 6 over the summer months.

Also, expect R2R to change the appearance of the cheese completely.\.

Yes, I expect so.  Will be fun to see - if I can obtain it.  Some difficulty, here in the States, but it's possible.

Add to your list ARN. It's a fantastic culture that is interesting to use wherever you would have otherwise used PLA. Different appearance and aromatic properties.

From prior conversation, yep, I know you're a fan.  I may do a one-off, for kicks.  But for now, playing with single-strain cultures.

[arkc]

My final take is:

Beaufort - Jersey whole, maybe a 'tiny' skim....Courtesy Paul

Parm - Jersey whole, no skim but 'some' nonfat dry.....Courtesy Sailor

And Yoav,  what do you think also?

annie

[Sailor Con Queso]

I personally would feel very guilty if I am ever in the position to skim Jersey milk. It's like getting a Ferrari and forcing yourself through a traffic jam, or buying a nice piece of Brie de Meaux AOC and throwing away the rind...

EXACTLY the way I feel. Breaks my heart to sacrifice flavor with less milk fat.

But doesn't this change the balance of the cheese?  More fat means a totally different lipolytic activity (and both Mozzarella and Parmesan call for lipase in them for a reason).  Adding milk powder to supplement protein would change the proteolytic activity.  What do you do to keep the balance going?

My rationale is that using NFD actually puts the cheese IN balance. A Parm for example needs a higher protein ratio. Let me restate for clarity, it doesn't need less fat, it needs more protein. In terms of lipolytic activity, the fat RATIO is lower than straight whole milk. As far as proteolysis goes, the NFD provides a higher ratio of proteins, therefor there are more proteins for enzymes, like Lipase, to work on. So, I don't feel like adding milk powder to supplement protein changes the proteolytic activity.  To me it puts things in balance for a particular type of cheese or a particular goal.

The PF ratio determines the rate of whey expulsion (higher fat curd is slower to release whey) and ultimately effects  the fat content of the finished cheese.

The Catch 22 is that Jersey and other milks can be really over the top for many cheeses. So you can either skim the milk, and remove flavor, or add NFD to put things in balance. I believe somewhere in the archives, Linuxboy gave some formulas for hitting target protein ratios.

[iratherfly]

Thanks Sailor - Interesting good info.  I still feel that it's strange using products like NFD. ...something not as basic as wholesome milk. (I am old fashioned, what can I say?). The other element of it is that I suspect that even with the perfect PF ratio your ratio to minerals/acids/water may be a bit off.  I would like to experiment with this some time and see what I get.

Paul - First off, if you could have all these things grow at once on your cheese it would be bland and confused in character.  My 5 cents are less is more. Not only would you not need so many types of geos, yeasts and b.linens growing on your cheese but also it will not allow you to figure out which are responsible for whatever characteristics you desire or not. They will blend not only in their appearance but also in the flavor and aroma. The best practice is to create a clean and focused cheese and go as simple as possible. Then, switch only ONE thing on your next batch such as the yeast or the B.Linen strain until you find your perfect combination.  Using all of them at once is a bit like trying to find a melody by hitting all the keys of a musical instrument simultaneously if you know what I mean.

The other aspect is the biological reality of cheese. There is simply only so much nutrients to go around. The more bacterium you propagate, the more competition exists over the nutrients. It's an all-out war out there and only the strong survive. At the end of the day, half the bacterium you plant will fail to grow completely because it would be out-compete the other half.  You really need to plan the bacterial design of the cheese so that the few cultures you are using would be compatible with each other in the given conditions at each stage. Think of it as growing plants in a garden; You give them space, light, nutrients. You never overcrowd a small plot because they will compete over land, nutrients, water and light. Does that make sense?
 
Annie I am a traditionalist. I feel that cheese is a product of circumstances and heirloom skills. It's okay that your Parmesan or Beaufort are a local style or your own personal style. My own personal style is to do the best that I can with whatever is available to me (cave, cultures, local milk, skill) but keep traditions such as pure cheese with no additives.  While NFD is an innocent harmless and natural addition (unlike stabilizers, preservatives, colorants etc.) it is still not a normal part of your local organic living breathing milk.  That doesn't mean it won't taste great by the way.  I would just always try making it without it.  That's just my personal philosophy of cheesemaking and consumption when I buy cheese.

[ArnaudForestier]

First off, if you could have all these things grow at once on your cheese it would be bland and confused in character. 

But these things don't grow all at once on a cheese, any more than they do in nature, or any more than they do when using a blend - your ARN, for example.  I think that's a bit of a leap to say that just because we use multiple species on a cheese, it will all be a jumbled, confused and bland mass; ecological succession takes care of that, for the most part.  Yet they are found, together. 

Basically, I am using a blend - my own.  Instead of PLA or ARN, I'm using DH, geo (yeasts, aromatics, de-acidifiers), SR3, FR22, FR13 (linens, with different properties), MVA (micrococcus), LBC (B. casei) with some thought on desired ends, and using what information Danisco provides to make my best guess.

My 5 cents are less is more.

I agree - it's been my cooking way all my life.  This represents a departure for me.  That said, if we're using blends of things, then none of us are really minimalists, are we?  At the end of the day, my cave is going to balance out to some complex mix of a ton of stuff, anyway.

Not only would you not need so many types of geos, yeasts and b.linens growing on your cheese but also it will not allow you to figure out which are responsible for whatever characteristics you desire or not. They will blend not only in their appearance but also in the flavor and aroma. The best practice is to create a clean and focused cheese and go as simple as possible. Then, switch only ONE thing on your next batch such as the yeast or the B.Linen strain until you find your perfect combination.  Using all of them at once is a bit like trying to find a melody by hitting all the keys of a musical instrument simultaneously if you know what I mean.

I do understand what you mean, Yoav, and I had thought of that - in fact, see the beginning of the thread.  I do think the only issue with the above - and this has been hard for me to accept, as I love strict methodology, to a certifiable fault - is that it's impossible to do a strictly scientific method, to isolate out each variable, since so much of the character is derived from the interplay of these flora; they don't exist in vacuo. 

You are right, in that a morge, rind, etc. are never pure strains, and are made up of tons of strain variations.  But again, we do the best with what's available.  Eventually, I'll probably just end up in the Savoie.  Till then, you like ARN, and I'm monkeying with making up my own ARN, in a word. 

Pav did make a great suggestion, which will help to pin down some things - find the specific proteolytic properties of each strain, their specific peptidolytic and amino-peptidolytic properties (e.g., b. casei has known properties...and I'm playing sleuth, only going on what I can find; Fox et al, mentions b. casei "has an active aminopeptidase and a proline-specific peptidase with debittering activity...").  I'm working on getting more detailed info along these lines, so I'm not flying so blind. 

This may have been missed - you asked why I was using MVA, and not PLA, and I didn't see the reasoning, since one is a micrococcus, and one, a blend.  Did you want to go into this more?

[arkc]

I believe somewhere in the archives, Linuxboy gave some formulas for hitting target protein ratios.

Does anyone have any idea where this might be?

annie