Author Topic: Mascarpone from commercial cream - failures  (Read 2819 times)

Offline MrsKK

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Mascarpone from commercial cream - failures
« on: May 13, 2011, 09:19:33 AM »
I've had excellent results making mascarpone from raw milk and white wine vinegar.  I planned on making some with my cheesemaking class this weekend, but have to use commercial cream.  I've had nothing but failure. 

I bought some tartaric acid from the local beer/wine making shop and was excited to try it.  No thickening of the cream, even after adding 4 times the amount originally called for.  Frustrated, I finally added about a quarter cup of cider vinegar, wanting to force the cream to curdle.  Absolutely nothing!

In looking at the label, it has things like carrageenan, guar gum and black locust gum in it.  So this morning I bought a half pint of another brand, with only carrageenan in it and got the same negative results.

I'm thinking that the stabilizers in it are preventing it from curdling?  I'm embarrassed for Wisconsin dairy products!

I'm hoping I can get some decent cream at the same place I buy the creamline milk for the class, otherwise, we won't be making mascarpone.

Offline darius

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Re: Mascarpone from commercial cream - failures
« Reply #1 on: May 13, 2011, 12:49:21 PM »
99% of the cream in stores around here is Ultra-Pasteurized. It generally won't make cheese, so I'd assume it won't make Mascarpone cheese either.

Offline linuxboy

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Re: Mascarpone from commercial cream - failures
« Reply #2 on: May 13, 2011, 01:47:09 PM »
Quote
it won't make Mascarpone cheese either.
Yes it will, but hydrocolloids (like common food processing gums) and polysaccharides (like carageenan) will inhibit curd formation.
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Offline MrsKK

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Re: Mascarpone from commercial cream - failures
« Reply #3 on: May 14, 2011, 07:19:26 AM »
So I bought 100% cream from the food coop, pasturized at 145 degrees Fahrenheit, no additives at all.  No coagulation/curdling happened last night for my cheese class.  What am I doing wrong?  Could it be the tartaric acid?

My method:
4 cups cream
1/4 tsp tartaric acid

Heat cream to 190* in double boiler.  When temp is reached, remove double boiler from heat and stir in the tartaric acid.  Stir for 30 seconds, then remove inner pot from double boiler.  Continue to stir for 2-3 minutes until cream is curdled and thick.  Cover and allow to stand about 15 minutes or until curds begin to firm. 

The recipe goes on to have you drain the curds overnight in a fridge, but there never were any curds.  Just cream that seemed just slightly thicker.  I don't know what to think.

I've never had any trouble with this when making mascarpone from raw cream and I never expected it with store bought product, even if UP.

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Re: Mascarpone from commercial cream - failures
« Reply #4 on: May 14, 2011, 01:18:27 PM »
What do you mean 100% cream. Most store bought, especially organic, is ultrapasteurized.
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Offline MrsKK

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Re: Mascarpone from commercial cream - failures
« Reply #5 on: May 15, 2011, 10:17:13 AM »
This cream is from the same dairy I get cream line milk from.  They only pasturize at 145* F and they don't add anything to the milk or the cream at all.  No stabilizers, etc.

McCreamy saved the day, though!  She bought some good cream from another dairy that pasturizes the same way.  We decided it was either my thermometer or the tartaric acid, so heated the cream until my thermometer said 200*.  We then used white wine vinegar to acidify it and it worked!

After preaching to my students about calibrating their thermometers in the intro class, I went and forgot to do it!  They liked it, though, as they said that they don't have to be so hard on themselves if they have failures, either.

The good thing is that the cream from Friday night got nice and thick and tastes just like sour cream, so not a total waste.

A good learning experience for me.

Offline McCreamy

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Re: Mascarpone from commercial cream - failures
« Reply #6 on: May 17, 2011, 10:20:03 AM »
it tasted SOOOOO good too!   :)

Offline Tomer1

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Re: Mascarpone from commercial cream - failures
« Reply #7 on: May 17, 2011, 11:26:21 AM »
Quote
it won't make Mascarpone cheese either.
Yes it will, but hydrocolloids (like common food processing gums) and polysaccharides (like carageenan) will inhibit curd formation.

Will it caused weaker curds when increasing milk fat with UltraP cream?
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Offline linuxboy

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Re: Mascarpone from commercial cream - failures
« Reply #8 on: May 17, 2011, 12:01:04 PM »
Quote

Will it caused weaker curds when increasing milk fat with UltraP cream?
You're asking two questions. One, does UP cream weaken curds. Yes it will. So will regular cream (not as much) because it changes the PF ratio. Two, do hydrocolloids and polysaccharides affect curd formation. Yes, they do. Sometimes drastically, to where curds will not form at all.
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Offline Gustav

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Re: Mascarpone from commercial cream - failures
« Reply #9 on: July 22, 2011, 11:47:36 AM »
I am having a hard time making mascarpone.
I use my own jersey cream, but how dO I know what to do with it to ba classified as light cream? I either skimm milk through mechanically and end up with cream that's so thick that it becomes like a solit mass. Or I just skim the cream off the top of the milk (this results in nice pouring style cream)

Then another thing, the recipe mentions that the cream will curdle. All I get is that the cream firms up some, I don't see any curd forming as with other cheeses eg. It will help alot if I can get a pic to see what it should look like.

The recipe calls for 1/4 teaspoon of tartaric acid, but on the side it says 5ml per quart, how much should be added then?

Please advise on this as I have ALOT of cream & really want to make this without wasting.
Melkman se kind.

Offline linuxboy

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Re: Mascarpone from commercial cream - failures
« Reply #10 on: July 22, 2011, 12:03:12 PM »
Quote
how dO I know what to do with it to ba classified as light cream?

You figure out the settings on your separator and have the samples tested to comply with the standards for light and heavy cream. Otherwise, you guess by the consistency. if it's a solid mass, then you're likely in the 40%+ fat range.

Quote
the recipe mentions that the cream will curdle.

Not correct. If mascarpone curdles, this is a technical manufacturing fault. Sometimes, a few flakes will be present, and this is OK.

Quote
what it should look like.

Think cream cheese, maybe a bit thinner. When hot, more like a custard when it hits the sabayon (or if you're familiar with italian zabaglione) stage. Sounds like your texture is right.

Quote
how much should be added then?

1/4 tsp per quart when using 20-22% fat cream. This is the typical commercial recipe when done on a large scale. pH target 5.9-6.0 post acid addition.

edit: see my article if you haven't already http://www.wacheese.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=76:fresh-mascarpone-howto&catid=37:heatacid-precipitated-cheese&Itemid=61
« Last Edit: July 22, 2011, 12:32:21 PM by linuxboy »
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Offline Gustav

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Re: Mascarpone from commercial cream - failures
« Reply #11 on: July 23, 2011, 12:22:38 AM »
Thnx a mil Linuxboy, that helps alot!
Melkman se kind.