Rennet Coagulated Curds - Amount For Different Cheese Type Discussion

[steffb503]

All the recipes I have for hard cheese are either 3-4 gallons or 25 gallons.
How do I  adjust the rennet  for say 6 gallons.

[Sailor Con Queso]

It is directly proportional, but you should study up on the flocculation method. That's the right way to determine the amount of rennet that you need.

[arkc]

I'm confused.....I thought that the spinning bowl method just gave you the flocc time and not the
amount of rennet to use?

arkc

[zenith1]

Arkc- remember,all things are interrelated. Meaning the amount of rennet added(and other factors) will determine how long the flocculation time is. the more rennet added, the shorter the flocculation time. So if your flocculation time that you need is say 12 minutes,and you actually determine it to be 15 minutes, you know the next time you make this particular cheese that you probably want to add a little more rennet. That will shorten the flocculation time.

[arkc]

Sorry, I was thinking  Sailor meant you could tell for the current 'do' how much to use.

That , of course makes much more sense...

Thanks,

arkc

[smilingcalico]

Sailor is right on the money.  I'll also note that I start at .5ml of rennet per gallon (for a hard cheese) and adjust following makes according to the floc time.  But once you have your floc time down, that doesn't allow you to forget about checking floc time, as seasonal variations occur.  Since you're using your own milk, and likely making cheese 2 to 3 times a week, you'll really be able to see what your milk is doing over time. 

[steffb503]

Well that's all fine and good but how many batches of 6-8 gallons of milk am I going to waste trying to figure out how much rennet to use.

When you say it is all relative, relative to what.
I have a recipe for Feta that uses 1tsp of rennet for 1 gallon of milk . I make this every week and love it. One of my best sellers. I can make the same recipe using 3 gallons of milk.  If I go by the theory that everything is relative, in my mind double the milk, double the everything else, would mean 3 tsp of rennet--way too much.

Even the bottle of rennet says 1/2 tsp for 2 gallon of milk. But we know that is not always the case. It is recipe specific. Soft cheese I use 2 gallons and 3 drops. Hard cheese I use 2 gallons and 3/4 tsp.

So back to the original question. How do I increase the amount of rennet if I am increasing my recipe from 3 gallons to 6. I am making Edam from The cheesemakers Manual.
The recipe for 3-4 gallons calls for 3/4 tsp. I made a 6 gallon batch using a bit over 1 tsp and it flopped. I got a mass of rice like curds in a lump.

[george]

If the feta works fine with 1 gal/1 tsp, why do you say doing the same proportion for a 3-gal batch is too much?

In any event, I just do the straight math (most of my recipes are for 2-4 gallons, and I do three gallon batches most times), and it works out fine, whether for hard or moldy cheeses.  If I'm not sure, I use just a tad less rennet on the first try (scant tsp instead of full one, for example) and then adjust slightly in future makes based on floc time.

[smilingcalico]

Steff, you don't throw out a batch of cheese just because you didn't get the floc time right.  I can see you're getting frustrated, but bear with us.  Get your rennet out.  Look at its instructions on the bottle.  If it's instructions aren't quite clear, contact your supplier and get the Material Safety Data Sheet (MSDS) from them.  I did fail to mention that I am using double strength rennet.  Not all rennet is created equally, so I did fail you there.  So, start with the manufacturers recommended rate, and adjust from there.  Now, for recipes calling for a floc time, try for it and adjust accordingly.  What you seem to not be taking into account is the variability between milk.  It is so much so that YOU HAVE NO CHOICE BUT TO PLAY AROUND WITH THE RENNET AMOUNT.  For example, if you and I have genetically identical herds, and use the same rennet, are making cheese at the same time, but you are East Coast and I am West Coast, there will be a difference in the make up of the milk due to diet, weather, and some other variables. 
A month ago I was using .5ml of rennet to 1 gallon of milk and acheiving a 12 minute floc time.  Now, that same amount of rennet is giving me an 8 minute floc time!!  So, clearly I had to back down the rennet. 
So, since my floc time is down, using my floc multiplier of 3, I cut at 24 minutes instead of 36 minutes, giving me similar curd for varying rennet amounts.  Make sense?

"I made a 6 gallon batch using a bit over 1 tsp and it flopped. I got a mass of rice like curds in a lump."  That sounds more like movement of the milk was an issue, not the rennet.  Others please comment on this area.

[susanky]

I don't have any magic answers.  But would reinforce what you said about variability. I made a Pyrenees a few week ago with a floc time 9 minutes.  So the next time I backed down on the rennet and was 12 minutes.  Pretty good.  Then, a few weeks later, that same (decreased amount) gave me a floc time of 30 minutes!  I can't keep up!  But will adjust accordingly.  (After 20 minutes I began to question if I actually remembered the rennet!)  Maybe that one was a fluke so because it was a bit of an outlier.  I will try again with similar amount before making a big adjustment. 
Susan

[mtncheesemaker]

I also notice a lot of variability in my milk, esp. seasonally with feed changes, and, with lactation cycle. Sometimes, when I don't have floc within 20 minutes, I have added another little bit of rennet to speed things up. I'm wondering now if that is a no-no? The cheeses haven't seemed to be hurt by this.
Good discussion.

[susanky]

Sometimes, when I don't have floc within 20 minutes, I have added another little bit of rennet to speed things up. I'm wondering now if that is a no-no?

I would be interested in the answer to this as well.  When my floc time went over 20 min I considered adding more.  But I reasoned that if it was trying to set up (what if it is 2 min away!) and I go stirring it (to add more) I would disrupt it and make things worse.  So which is worse.. a floc time that is way too long, or disrupting it to add more rennet to decrease the floc time?
Susan

[linuxboy]

So which is worse.. a floc time that is way too long, or disrupting it to add more rennet to decrease the floc time?

For which cheese? It's actually tough to generalize this across all cheeses. It's possible for a specific technology of cheese, though. For example tomme types have specific "best" parameters, and so do alpine types, and so do semi-lactic types.

[susanky]

This one happened to be a Pyrenees.  I suppose it varies with 'groups' of cheese?  But why?  It seems if it is trying to create this gelled state, disrupting it would be universally a problem (or not).
Susan

[steffb503]

So I at least need a starting point. 3 gallon recipe for Edam calls for 3/4 tsp which worked out well. I want to double the amount of milk should I start out with double the rennet? What if I want to make two or three 3 gallon batches at a time?
My rennet says 1/2 tsp for two gallons milk.

I am not frustrated with you guys, you guys are great.
I just find this confusing.
I think I get Flocc. time but if I start with nearly  not enough rennet or way too much I am never going to get it right.