Author Topic: Coagulation, Rennet - Flocculation Too Fast, Recommendations? / Effect Of Excess Rennet?  (Read 1732 times)

Online steffb503

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I am starting another thread so you all can keep discussing other points.

This is my problem....
I took your advise and used double the rennet for double the milk. Original recipe called for 3 gallons and 3/4 tsp of rennet.
I used 6 gallons and 1 1/2 tsp rennet.
I got a Flocc time of 4 mins. Obviously too much rennet.
I went ahead and used 3.5 multiplier and continued with the make.

Today I made some Feta. I have made this recipe every week or two using 2-3 gallons of milk. So I figured it was selling too fast I will make 6 gallon batch. And according to you all I should double the rennet. Well here is where I get confused. The original Feta recipe called for 1 gallon and 1 tsp of rennet. Since I was under the impression that the rennet would stay the same for a wide variety of amounts of milk I did not increase the rennet when I upped the amount of milk to 3 gallons. But I listened to the experts and added 2 tsp rennet to my 6 gallons of milk. Again Flocc time of 4 mins.
So how far back do I take the rennet next 6 gallon batch?
Will the very short Flocc time effect the taste of the cheese, I really like every thing about the way it turns out with 3 gallons and 1 tsp of rennet.


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Offline linuxboy

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So how far back do I take the rennet next 6 gallon batch?
I think a few of us already answered this several times. I'm curious about why you like using teaspoons instead of a syringe and ml measurements. Just easier? Those recipes you have, they are for home use for basic batches. They are not necessarily commercial scale makes. Scrap the recipe guidelines and use the quantity of rennet specific to your rennet activity per your manufacturer. Which is about 9 ml single strength per 100 lbs milk. This is for all rennet cheeses.
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Online steffb503

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OK so that is 4.5 ml per 50 lbs of milk , which is about 6 gallons.
My rennet says 1/2 tsp, 2.5 ml for 2 gallons. Yes tsp is not only easier I know how many tsp in a table spoon in my head that is what I learned.

The recipe I like I have been using 5 ml for 2-3 gallons.
I must admit I never did check Flocc time for that amount but the end result is perfect.
How will the very fast flocc time affect the taste and texture?


Offline ArnaudForestier

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Quote from: Pav
9 ml single strength per 100 lbs milk

Pav, I did know of this before seeing Wayne's post, also reminding me of the figure.  I know using this with my last wheel, 4.6 ml/6 gallons of milk, I got an inordinately fast renneting (I suspect, to be honest, somewhere between 7-8 minutes - don't know if you saw my post, but it happened so quickly, I was caught off guard).

I do recall this figure from my earliest days making cheese ("oh, so many...uh, months ago"), but know I rennet, typically, at a much lower rate - between about 6.5 ml/cwt to as high as 7.0 ml/cwt; until my last Beaufort make, I just don't approach the 9 ml/cwt figure - and I wonder if that's because when I did follow the figure, I always got well below 10 minutes' renneting time.

Is there some source going into the reasoning?  Some way of knowing the precise strength of one's rennet - something like a lot number, analogous to DVI? 
- Paul

Offline linuxboy

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Is there some source going into the reasoning?
Yes, it started with old-timey amounts for single strength rennet in Europe, with rennet made from calf vells, which was 12-14 ml per 100 liters. That's just what rennet tends to come out at when you make it yourself.. usually somewhere around 150 IMCU unless purified. Now in Europe, you have something like 130-140 IMCU (~1:10,000) rennet for single strength. US is it 1:15,000, which is about 200 IMCU for single strength. So the US recipes tend to call for the same amount as European cheese, but adjusted for the difference in single strength. It's a range, anywhere from 6-9 ml per 100 lbs in the US.

Source is tradition and I suppose that came from trial and error. It's also been confirmed in practice in terms of the rennet amount necessary to achieve good coagulation and proper proteolysis without too much off flavor or too weird of a make.

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Some way of knowing the precise strength of one's rennet - something like a lot number, analogous to DVI? 
All commercial rennet is standardized to a specific activity of IMCU. It's an ISO standard. No difference among batch numbers, only difference is due to the product lines.


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Offline linuxboy

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and I wonder if that's because when I did follow the figure, I always got well below 10 minutes' renneting time.
9 is just a starting point. I never use 9 because my milk flocs at 6 mins when I do. I typically do around 6. You have to use 7-9 as a starting point, and then adjust for your specific milk so you hit the time to floc. That's why knowing the time to floc for each style/technology is important.
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Offline ArnaudForestier

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Great, Pav, thanks.  I had forgotten about the different ratio between U.S. and American manufacture.  Still puzzled why I seem to get such fast renneting, as a general rule, when actually using a 9 ml/cwt ratio. 

Edit:  Whoops, our paths crossed.  Thanks, Pav.  Will re-tool and see what I come up with.  I know that going with 6.2, I was in the 20 minute range, but that is with my new milk, and a fairly consistent incoming pH of 6.63-6.64.  I'll try 6.78, 3.5 ml single strength veal rennet/6 gallons, and see if I can't get to the 12-15 min. optima.
- Paul

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Does the very fast Flocc time change the taste or texture of the final result?

Offline linuxboy

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Does the very fast Flocc time change the taste or texture of the final result?
For high moisture cheeses above 45% MFFB that are ripened by white or blue mold, or that are heavily salted, I haven't found the differences to be really dramatic. Like for feta, or for crottin, I've made them with tons of rennet and a trial one time, and the end results were pretty similar. What was harder was getting the acidity to match, and figuring out the exact floc.

But when you get to "normal" rennetted and continental cheeses, yes, absolutely It will lead to a faster rate of maturation that may contribute to off flavors. By continental cheeses, I mean hard cheeses like ones that are cheddared or tomme types. It's also harder to get the acidity and moisture right with that fast of a floc.
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