Author Topic: Greetings from Melbourne, Australia  (Read 3127 times)

Oz_Cheese

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Greetings from Melbourne, Australia
« on: June 06, 2011, 03:25:38 AM »
Hey everybody,

Just wanted to pop in to the cheese room and say g'day! i'm a new member and looking forward to learning and hopefully contributing...

I'm a microbiologist by education/trade so hopefully i might be able to help some fellow australians out at some stage... I'm new to cheese making but it's something that has always interested and fascinated me...

Bishop

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Re: Greetings from Melbourne, Australia
« Reply #1 on: June 06, 2011, 09:52:43 AM »
Hi Oz_Cheese,
            welcome to the site, I'm a fellow Melbournian also, I look forward to talking all things cheese with you soon.

Offline Gürkan Yeniçeri

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Re: Greetings from Melbourne, Australia
« Reply #2 on: June 06, 2011, 09:39:47 PM »
Welcome to the forum Oz_Cheese. I am from Canberra.

Cheese Head

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Re: Greetings from Melbourne, Australia
« Reply #3 on: June 07, 2011, 12:29:05 AM »
Welcome oz_cheese, we have a couple of micro-bi's here and the conversation can get pretty thick here sometimes for us jug heads! Ozzie ozzie ozzie!

Oz_Cheese

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Re: Greetings from Melbourne, Australia
« Reply #4 on: June 08, 2011, 01:44:57 AM »
Hey Guys, great to hear from you all and thank you for the warm welcome! I'm definitely looking forward to getting in to the thick of things and sharing some experiences or, where possible, some technical advice...

iratherfly

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Re: Greetings from Melbourne, Australia
« Reply #5 on: June 08, 2011, 04:02:21 AM »
Welcome to the forum Oz Cheese!

...everybody needs a microbiologist here :) I am sure you will be very popular soon enough!

What types of cheese have you been making?

Oz_Cheese

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Re: Greetings from Melbourne, Australia
« Reply #6 on: June 08, 2011, 04:48:15 AM »
Thanks iratherfly, much appreciated...

More than happy to help out where i can! so far i haven't made any - i'm in the learning phase at the moment :) over the coming weeks i'll be making some with some mould spores that i isolated from some French Cheeses i purchased - just culturing them up at the moment though...


Welcome to the forum Oz Cheese!

...everybody needs a microbiologist here :) I am sure you will be very popular soon enough!

What types of cheese have you been making?

iratherfly

  • Guest
Re: Greetings from Melbourne, Australia
« Reply #7 on: June 08, 2011, 05:40:54 AM »
Did you isolate them the lab way... or made a morge out of a French cheese rind? How many different species did you isolate? That's fascinating stuff.

What will you try first?  My suggestion is to treat the first few cheeses as practice and choose things that don't need extended aging commitment. You get to enjoy them faster which will give you the encouragement to continue and of course you get to learn the critical techniques and rights/wrongs in just a few weeks.

Oz_Cheese

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Re: Greetings from Melbourne, Australia
« Reply #8 on: June 08, 2011, 11:42:22 PM »
My initial steps were to isolate the spores from actual cheese rind - this was done simply by wiping the surface of the rind with a swab and then inoculating a TSA agar plate. When you do this you may get a mixed culture - so i've taken single colonies from the agar plate and isolated and purified them further. Now i have pure cultures of, what i assume at this stage, to be P. camemberti

I also sampled some of the cheese pate - i've gotten some growth from that so far but i'm not quite sure what it is yet... i didn't think LAB grew after salting and mould growth... in any case i'm going to purify further and then inoculate some raw milk with some of the colonies and then monitor the pH - if i get a pH change then i'll look at them under a microscope. What is a morge?

My first attemp is going to be a camembert as i have the moulds etc that i need - just need the starter culture. But i'm going to break with tradition a little as i want to develop (in addition to the traditional cheeses) some of my own unique flavours as, eventually, i'd like to consider starting up my own boutique artisan cheeses. So what i'm going to do over time is change certain variables of the manufacturing process i.e. in one round i will inoculate the starter culture and add rennet exactly the same way - but then when it comes to cutting the curd i will try a few different things - one i will use a ladel with no cutting, the other i'll cut in to large chunks, the other fine chunks and so on... then i'll subject my friends to taste testing and see which ones they prefer. Then i'll play around a little with the moulds that i use mixing it up with P. candidum P. camemberti G. candidum

There's so much to learn though! ideally i'd like to find one location where the traditional methods/recipes are and then modify from those...

In the future i'm looking at the feasibility of making my own underground cheese cave - i want to get the cheesemaking figured out first though :)


Did you isolate them the lab way... or made a morge out of a French cheese rind? How many different species did you isolate? That's fascinating stuff.

What will you try first?  My suggestion is to treat the first few cheeses as practice and choose things that don't need extended aging commitment. You get to enjoy them faster which will give you the encouragement to continue and of course you get to learn the critical techniques and rights/wrongs in just a few weeks.

iratherfly

  • Guest
Re: Greetings from Melbourne, Australia
« Reply #9 on: June 09, 2011, 06:10:36 AM »
Wow, that's fascinating stuff. So first off, P. Camemberti is rather generic these days and not really sold much anymore as is. Instead there are specific strains and P. Candidum such as VS, Neige, SAM3, HP6 etc. They differ in the growth speed, resistance to salinity, anti mucor properties, growth height and density, stability and ammoniation as well as their lipolytic and  proteolytic effects over the ripening of the cheese.  There is also a similar strain called P. Album which is slightly more gray than white and is used in more traditional unpasteurized French bloomy types such as Brie de Meaux.

The other essensial bacteria is Geotrichum Candidum which also comes in different varieties. In addition to rind creation and lipolysis/proteolysis it is also a surface de-acidifier. It neutralizes the surface of the acidic curd so that bacteria like the P.Candidum can grow on it at ease. (On this forum Geotrichum Candidum is often referred to as "geo" or "GC" and Penicilum Candidum is often referred to as "PC").

Starters are an art of their own and make a huge impact on the final character of your cheese.  Most Camembert type cheeses have a mix of at least 3 mesophilic lactococcus lactis strains. The subspecies are lactis, cremoris and biovar diacetylactis.

Morge is a slurry that is either made out of the rind of an existing cheese in order to extract the flora from it for the purpose of putting it in another cheese by inoculation or surface wash/spray. The term also refers to the fresh bacterial brine made to spray or wash cheese rind with.

I highly recommend for you the book 'Technology of Cheesemaking' as it explains it well and in great detail. Sadly however it doesn't have anything about the art, spirit and true history of cheesemaking and you should be in persuite of flavor and quality before technology IMHO so if you want to read up about it I suggest the book American Artisanal Cheese and The Fabrication of Farmstead Goat Cheese (even if you don't plan on making goat cheeses).  Also since you are in Australia I would assume you have some access to the terrific Australian TV series Cheese Slices by Will Studd. http://www.cheeseslices.com. You will fund some great common grounds with another forum member Linuxboy who is also working on extracting and preserving rare and heirloom cultures.

Camemberts are fun!

Oz_Cheese

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Re: Greetings from Melbourne, Australia
« Reply #10 on: June 10, 2011, 04:54:11 AM »
Thanks for all of that info iratherfly! it sounds like you\'ve been doing this for a while :) What\'s your cheese making background?

iratherfly

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Re: Greetings from Melbourne, Australia
« Reply #11 on: June 12, 2011, 05:56:39 AM »
I have just been living it, eating it and making it - a lot.  Spending time with other cheesemakers, affineurs and cheese mongers.  Eventually you just find yourself getting back to some of the same resources repeatedly. I've only been doing them for a few years now, I just do a lot. I also make yogurts and ice creams, bake, make pickles, cure sausages and meats etc., so many of the concepts are the same.

Rudy

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Re: Greetings from Melbourne, Australia
« Reply #12 on: June 20, 2011, 12:43:22 AM »
Hello from another Melburnian newbie.....may need to take you up on your offer for advise, found on the weekend that a family of rats had made the box with all of my cheese making equipment home with the resultant mess you would expect....was wondering what I should use to disinfect, the equipment includes plastic moulds, bamboo mats and a timber cheese press ?.....

Offline Gürkan Yeniçeri

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Re: Greetings from Melbourne, Australia
« Reply #13 on: June 20, 2011, 05:04:53 AM »
Hi Rudy, Welcome to the forum,

Throw away the wooden ones.

The others can be first boiled and dipped into bleach for 10 minutes. Make sure no rat poo left anywhere after boiling.

(I would throw away everything and start from scratch though.)

Rudy

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Re: Greetings from Melbourne, Australia
« Reply #14 on: June 22, 2011, 03:17:28 AM »
Thanks for that, am inclined to agree with you....am finding the thought of reusing the equipment a bit repulsive and not sure if I could bring myself to eat any cheese made using using it anyway !...

Hi Rudy, Welcome to the forum,

Throw away the wooden ones.

The others can be first boiled and dipped into bleach for 10 minutes. Make sure no rat poo left anywhere after boiling.

(I would throw away everything and start from scratch though.)