Author Topic: Coagulation, Rennet - Flocculation Time Method, When Stop Spinning & Seasonal Milk Discussion  (Read 1579 times)

Offline steffb503

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I would like to be sure I am doing this correct.
After adding rennet I am floating a plastic container. I spin. I pay attention to the time as I spin every minute. Here is my question. I start to get resistance but it will still move but not freely.
Is this the point of Flocculation when there is resistance or is it when it can no longer move even with help?

I ask because I am using 4 gallons of raw goat milk, adding 1.5ml of double strength rennet and consistently getting flocc times of 8 mins. But at 8 mins my multiplier does not seem to achieve the proper curd consistency. That causes me to wait longer thinking that I am not really clear on the flocc moment.
So where am I going wrong?
Am I not at the right point of Flocc?
I doubt I should use less rennet should I ?
The rule of thumb seems to be 3.5-4 ml of double strength per 100 lbs milk.


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Offline Wayne Harris

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I'm not sure what the proper curd consistency is that you are looking for.  Typically most folks look for a "clean break"
My floc time is determined when the spinning bowl no longer moves.  A slight push on the bowl, and it moves ever so slightly, and then moves back.
The bowl does not move free.

You did not mention any dilution. I assume you are diluting your rennet in non-chlorinated water.  (20-40 times the amount of rennet)
I use single strength Veal rennet at the rate of 9ml/100lbs of milk.  I also dilute the rennet with 40 times as much water. Since I use milk that is pasteurized and homogenized, I add calcium chloride to my cheesemilk.

After your initial curd cut, do you wait for a healing period?  I always wait about 10 minutes after initial curd cutting, before I do my first stir.

Hope this helps.
Wayne A. Harris - in vino veritas

Offline linuxboy

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When the surface "seizes" this is the flocculation point. Before that, the milk will seem a tad thicker. Another way to tell is to watch the refraction of the light. It will get a different tinge of light to it when it seizes. Will seem more solid. When it happens, it's kind of dramatic. One second you will have this kind of thick milky stuff, and next second it will seize. The bowl shouldn't move at all when nudged. it will sort of wobble, like it wants to go but can't.

Summer milk you are going to experience different curd behavior. The milk is thinner and there's less fat, which will cause it to gel faster, but it will take a tad longer to really set. That's why for summer milk you not only use the floc method, but adjust your temps. Typically, you don't need to heat as high or stir as long, and you will still hit your moisture targets. So what I do in summer often is nudge the multiplier a little higher so I have good yield, and then cut the heat down and be a tad more gentle with the curds. You should also do a slightly longer healing time because the curd is fragile. Cut it and let the skin form all around then start your stir.

What goats do you have, can you please remind me? If your solids are high, you can cut down the rennet even more to at least a 10 min floc. Is your double strength Chr Hansen's rennet? because that's technically more like 2.5x.
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arkc

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Linuxboy,

That was a great blurb on summer milk.  I've saved it to my permanent  'Cheese folder'.
You may have said that before, but I haven't been on the CF that long and I haven't
seen it.

And it was most propitious timing,  my Bloomies are behaving differently (not as large)
than even 3 months ago.  I was thinking of asking you about the seasonality of
the milk...  Great timing.  Can I assume that since there is not as much fat, the
volume of the cheese will be less?  If that's wrong, please let me know.

I know you don't need it, but a 'thumbs up' for you. 

Thanks,

annie

Offline linuxboy

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Absolutely, 3 months ago was different period in lactation, and environment had different food and temps.

Think of it like this. In winter, everything is slower and heavier. In summer, there's more energy, more activity, more growth. So in winter, the milk has more fat, it will be like an ox... solid, strong, and stoic. And honestly, a little austere. Not quite so much flavor. The curd, as a result, is going to be reluctant to let go of whey, be more ponderous, and really try to provide the most calories to everyone to make it through to spring.

In summer, everything is more playful. The milk is thinner, lighter, has fewer calories but is packed with nutrition from the grass, and has more minerals/vitamins because the grasses take up those minerals from the soil and the sun. It's eager to make curd for you, eager to let go of whey, and has a sort of ADHD where you have to be more gentle with it and coax it, because it has a somewhat mercurial temperament and needs a more delicate hand. Otherwise, it will run around and play the jester, making one a fool.

I think the milks invite us to have different kinds of relationships with it and with the curd. Winter milk and curd wants us to be predictable and hunker down with it for the long haul, and be firm and clear with our demands so we make it to summer. And summer milk wants us to put on a t shirt (and hair net), turn up the music, and dance. It wants a bit of flirting and romance because it's dead sexy.

Dancing is very active. So the cheese will be thinner :)
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arkc

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L.B.

From computers to cheese to poetry!

That was fun.....

annie

Offline steffb503

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Thanks
I think I might not be waiting enough. I do wait longer to cut the curd ans yes I do let it heal.
I am using  Double strength microbial rennet derived from Mucor miehei. From Steve Shapson.

My goats are mostly Alpine/Boer.

Online ArnaudForestier

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Pav, just when I thought I had a printable nugget with your "summer" paragraph, you go Da Vinci on me, once again, and prove you're as adept in lyrical storytelling as in science. 

Thanks, man, very helpful. :)
- Paul

Offline Wayne Harris

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once again, and prove you're as adept in lyrical storytelling as in science. 

Anyone remember this Gem? http://cheeseforum.org/forum/index.php/topic,4535.msg34955.html#msg34955
Wayne A. Harris - in vino veritas

Offline Boofer

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Another classic from linuxboy.
   Paints a picture.
      Absolutely lyrical.
         Another keeper for my files.

Thanks, linuxboy, for educating and entertaining.

-Boofer-
Let's ferment something!
Bread, beer, wine, cheese...it's all good.


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Online ArnaudForestier

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once again, and prove you're as adept in lyrical storytelling as in science. 

Anyone remember this Gem? http://cheeseforum.org/forum/index.php/topic,4535.msg34955.html#msg34955


hahahahha!  I was about to say, Mel Brooks is too highbrow for me, as I'm more of a Jim Carrey mugging, posing, stealing focus kind of guy - but saw Calcium Chloride, so knew this wasn't History of The World. 

I feel like a true initiate, now.  Do I get a robe?   ;D
- Paul

Offline linuxboy

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Lift up the scepter and put on the hat
It's good for here and there and this and that
Let loose the yawp on top of every roof
And grin from ear to ear you big, French goof
Sashay the secret dance (and scratch your arse)
Ignite the sacred fire (it's a farce)
With BEvERage in hand propose a swig;
Parade around adorned with huge, white wig
To sit atop the mound of fancy stuff
Right next to honored member: Billy Gruff


:P :P
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Offline Sailor Con Queso

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I am using  Double strength microbial rennet derived from Mucor miehei.

Steff - you might want to try a different rennet. I find that the microbial stuff does not set nearly as well. I have lots of "organic" customers that have come to terms with the fact that veal rennet is more "natural" that the chemically and genetically engineered stuff.

As the weather gets hotter, cows and other milk animals drink more water. That makes the milk thinner and it reacts differently. Makes flocculation even more significant for maintaining consistency. IMHO 8 minutes is way to short. If you find that you continue to get a weak curd set, I would consider adding a little CaCl2.

Very nice LB.
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arkc

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Steff,

Are you using Chymosin?

annie

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Pav, high lit.  You slay me. 

Oh, I'd bag "on top" in yawp line.  It flies better.  And now you're forcing me to wake up the sleeping writer.  He's a grumpy s.o.b., thanks, man. ;D
- Paul