Author Topic: Answer to why my Epoisses types are hard  (Read 9551 times)

Offline ArnaudForestier

  • Old Cheese
  • *****
  • Location: Madison, Wisconsin
  • Posts: 1,546
  • Cheeses: 45
  • Default personal text
    • Paul's FB
Re: Answer to why my Epoisses types are hard
« Reply #30 on: June 15, 2011, 01:33:44 PM »
Boof, I just used Pav's technique; got two cheeses I liked, and made a rind puree.  Composed of 1/2 Herve Mons's Tomme de Bois Noir (a goat's milk tomme, actually), and an AOC tomme de savoie that looked like the rind I was seeking, and tasted wonderful.  I wanted to do a true tomme grise, with that velvety, even mat of gray-black, as in Tomme de Lullin (it's in DK's French Cheeses book). 

I also prepped the cave from the start, much more rigorously than my first cave.  Sanitized it thoroughly, then did a whey-puree wash over all surfaces, allowing it to dry.  Started the temp and humidity levels to 54F/90% RH. 

In the make, a just used enough milk to make a slurry - sanitized my blender as thoroughly as possible, dropped in the rind sections, pureed the heck out of the slurry until it was as liquified as possible.  Then just added to my make.  The only other added culture is MA4001. 

On all 3 tommes, I started seeing the mucor welling up in very wispy lines, like cobwebs, from underneath, in the paste.  I leave it alone.  It springs to fur within 7-8 days, and I've allowed it to go for a couple of weeks, then rubbed down, and spread it around the wheel.  The only issue I'm seeing is that the sides of my wheels don't, for some reason, sprout as readily, so I'm a bit disappointed in that I won't seemingly get that even rind look, over the entire wheel. 

One thing I'm thinking:  I'd love to do a wheel, without any management whatsoever - simply, allow the mucor to grow, thrive, die back.  It occurs to me that because I age on wood, and not coarse matting, the mould tends to get pressed naturally, by the weight of the wheel against the wood.  So I might try another, on matting, to allow the delicate "hair" to grow to tall-stand length, possibly.

The smell is rich mushroom.  My hands are as black as coal, when done hand-rubbing the wheels.  Because this mucor is an aggressive little beast - I understand from Pav it has an extremely proteolytic nature - I have dampened its growth curve, as well, by dropping back a bit on the temp, to 51F.  I'd like to manage nuanced growth, good funk, with the proper aging time - this one's a bit shorter than my other tommes, 3 months at most.

Oh, additionally, French Cheeses describes no washed curd for the Lullin.  They simply cook the curds from 91F to 99F.  I did a kind of hybrid, again with guidance from Pav, or about 10% water-whey replacement washing; I then ramped the temp up by heating to the proper 99F.  I was seeking some of the piquancy of the cooked curd approach, yet preserving some of the sweet curd from using a bit of washing.
« Last Edit: June 15, 2011, 01:40:34 PM by ArnaudForestier »
- Paul

Offline Boofer

  • Old Cheese
  • *****
  • Location: Lakewood, Washington
  • Posts: 5,015
  • Cheeses: 344
  • Contemplating cheese
Re: Answer to why my Epoisses types are hard
« Reply #31 on: June 15, 2011, 02:03:14 PM »
Well that certainly gives me something to ponder. You dedicated a fridge for just this style? Or will the flora that is developing be applicable/conducive to other styles?

You are also doing Beauforts...and what other styles? How many caves (fridges) do you have in operation?

Yeah, I know, so many questions.  ::)

-Boofer-
Let's ferment something!
Bread, beer, wine, cheese...it's all good.

Offline ArnaudForestier

  • Old Cheese
  • *****
  • Location: Madison, Wisconsin
  • Posts: 1,546
  • Cheeses: 45
  • Default personal text
    • Paul's FB
Re: Answer to why my Epoisses types are hard
« Reply #32 on: June 15, 2011, 02:12:22 PM »
Yep, the cave is a mucor cave.  It's too aggressive, and not good friends with other things.  It's OK - I'm working on perfecting a limited range of cheeses, and as I intend on doing this commercially, I need to really hone in.  So far, I've got two caves; one is my Beaufort cave - though I use an aging container in it, to do my reblochons as well.  This other cave is this tomme grise cave.  The Beaufort cave will also get my regular tomme, a more mottled, rustic, "flora fight it out" wheel.  And in the autumn, I'll begin working on Vacherin Mont D'Or.  I need to figure out how to peel spruce strips - suspect I won't be able to secure that nifty channel-chisel, so will have to score it first, then peel.  At any rate, I love Mont D'Or, and it will make a nice autumn-winter component of my seasonal desires. 

Boof, I never tire of questions.  I know I beleaguer poor Pav a ton, and the others have gotten my flurries as well.  My only hope is that I'm helpful. :)
- Paul

janesmilk

  • Guest
Re: Answer to why my Epoisses types are hard
« Reply #33 on: June 26, 2011, 12:42:56 AM »
Hello,
So sorry to interrupt this conversation! Wondering if anyone would be willing to share the recipe they are using for epoisses? From my reading ( and I may have missed something) I am assuming that many of you are using the Peter Dixon lactic curd recipe with the addition of B-linens), flipping / pressing for several days to remove extra whey and ageing from that point on with the brine washes etc. If you would be willing to share it would be appreciated! Wondering also how far past 60 days anyone has aged I understand it is typically done before then!

Thanks, Lisa