Author Topic: P candidum Innoculant - Making From Rind & Pregnancy & Bloomy Cheese Discussion  (Read 4151 times)

Offline gemma.tyson

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I used the ones that came with the kit that my partner bought for me.  Mad Millie only has this one.  They don't have any GEO.
We live in a small country town in Victoria, Australia.  In the area where the bush fires were.  Two hours away from any major town.
Mail order is the only way to get any different supplies.  Have been looking at Cheeselinks, think this is a New Zealand company.
One of my camemberts did split quite badly and I have cut it.  My work mates loved it.  My partner thinks it's great.  Me, I think I would prefer
the full taste of a camembert.  At least it won't be wasted.  The other three are still holding on.  I figure the longer the better as I am really getting
a bit sick of fetta tasting cheeses :0


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Offline iratherfly

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So many cheesemakers from NZ on this forum! Must have great milk there!

Offline JeffHamm

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Hi gemma,

One thing you could try is to take a piece of cam that you really like, and very carefully slice off the rind from a wedge (like you would put on a cracker when being "kind" to yourself in terms of the portion size).  Put this in some warm (not hot) sterile water (i.e. boiled, then cooled, no chlorine, etc) and stir vigorously with a fork.  Mash it up to break it into as small pieces as you can.  The water should go milky and cloudy.  Pour this into your milk along with your starter and you should end up with your white mold, with a similar make up as used in the cam you like.  I've done this on two makes of cams (in fact, the 2nd batch took rind from my first batch - worked fine but I think I wouldn't go for a 3rd batch without buying a new "original").  Anyway, apparently this doesn't always work well, but it might be a way of getting a mix of molds that you like?

- Jeff
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Offline iratherfly

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Jeff, we discussed the lack of Geo in her rind makeup, not the lack of PC -which she seems to have in fresh packages already.  The use of morge is definately a viable option for making cheese and I find it to be more effective with reviving the top flora (PC, as oppose to the bottom layer of Geo).  I personally don't use it because I want to know that I can re-produce the same cheese over and over again.

Why the warm water? I wouldn't go above 72°F/22°C. Interesting.  Were you able to get a good Geo growth out of your previous morge? Or just PC?

Offline JeffHamm

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Hi iratherfly,

I figure, but could be wrong, that you would get all the molds they used in the bought cam by using the rind.  So, provided they used geo of course, you would end up with both developing.  I wouldn't think the geo would die off completely, but I could be wrong.  As for the warm water, I tend to go with something in a similar temperature range as the milk you'll be adding it to.  In part because it helps soften up the cheese and rind that you're using and should make it break up into finer bits.  I don't think you want to add any "chunky bits" to your milk, and the cloudy water should have enough in it to do the trick.

The cam's I made were the first cheeses I made at home, so I wouldn't have recognized what was growing at the time (and it was last year, so I don't recall now).  What I do know is that I didn't get slip skin, and the cheese turned out quite nice.  It did go very bitter after extended aging in a regular fridge, but I think I over renneted it and attributed it to that. 

- Jeff
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Offline iratherfly

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Yes, you are correct. What I was saying is that when making a morge, in my experience the PC transfers more effectively than the GEO. They both grow but not in the same proportion they were originally inoculated to into the mother cheese.   Morge is generally an effective method but it's just a pain to replicate or troubleshoot if you don't know what strains were used by the cheesemaker of the mother cheese.

As for the water temperature and chunks; I don't inoculate the morge directly into the milk of the new cheese. It doesn't make a good direct set culture because of those chunks, because one can't measure the strength, and because if the mother cheese is contaminated than you will contaminate the entire new batch instead of being able to notice the contamination on the surface and blot it off right away, then fix it with morge from another cheese.  (And contamination is not so hard to find ...how many hands handled that cheese by now? how many refrigeration units it spent time in and with what next to it? Does your cheese have more frequent miles than you do?). Instead, I add the slurry into 100-200ml of clean cool water with 2% salt. I let this mix stand for at least 12 hours in room temp before refrigerating it. This liquid is than used as a SPRAY on top of the cheese (or wash if this is a washed-rind type).

It is more effective and active, you need to use less, you don't have any chunks in your milk and you have less risk of contamination, you can keep it and use it on future cheese for 2-3 weeks if you made enough.

For this purpose I use cool water. Warm water will activate the bacteria too quickly, also accelerating its consumption of nutrients and causing it to stabilize prematurely. Of course chunks are of no concerns because they wouldn't go through a spray bottle nozzle anyway but you can always filter the water through a sanitized strainer/screen first.

Offline JeffHamm

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Gotcha.  Next time I make cams I'll try and observe what molds develope.  The spray method sounds fairly straight forward as well.  Will think on that too.

- Jeff
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Offline iratherfly

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Keep me posted!

Offline JeffHamm

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Will do.  Won't be making cams for awhile though.  My wife is expecting our 2nd, so it's no soft cheeses until after the baby arrives.  Should be in about 7 weeks, so I should get working on something that ages in a couple months.

- Jeff
The wise do not always start out on the right path, but they do know when to change course.

Offline iratherfly

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Great time to start a 60-day brie then! And congratulations of course!

By the way, this pregnancy bloomy cheese hysteria is totally over-rated and blown out of proportion. It also doesn't apply to pasteurized cheese because Listeria doesn't survive pasteurization. French women would kick and scream if you stop the supply of bloomy cheese during their pregnancy, and theyt eat sub 60 day raw milk cheese. (but then again, who wants to mess with a pregnant women?)  Your wife is on her last trimester and can have cheese, wine and sushi....

Here's a good read for you: http://blog.artisanalcheese.com/cheese_news/for-the-pregnant-cheese-lovers
also
http://www.mayoclinic.com/health/pregnancy-nutrition/PR00109


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Offline JeffHamm

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Thanks!  And yah, I realise the risks are really only increased with nonpasturised soft cheeses, but it's not my call.  :) 

- Jeff
The wise do not always start out on the right path, but they do know when to change course.

Offline gemma.tyson

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Hi Jeff.
Thanks for that.  I have been reading with interest as it is hard to get what I need where I live.  Ended up not making cheese yesterday
as I made an emergency dash to see my brother who is on a steep downward hill with his battle with cancer.  He was delighted to hear I
was making cheese, would love me to make him some but he is not allowed to eat soft cheese due to a low white cell count.  Any suggestions
on a fast hard cheese I can make over the weekend?
Congrats by the way on the expected arrival of baby no 2.  I almost envy you now my children are grown up. LOL.  They were wonderful times.
Just waiting for grand children.

Offline JeffHamm

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Hi gemma,

Sorry to hear about your brother.  Caerphilly is good in about 3 weeks.  I would go for that one.  Also, if you use pasturised milk to make the soft cheese it might be ok?  Ask your brother's doctors if that would be ok.   Queso Fresco can be eaten right out of the press but I didn't find it had much flavour by itself, but great to cut up small and add to spagetti sauce, etc.

- Jeff
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Offline Helen

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Quote
French women would kick and scream if you stop the supply of bloomy cheese during their pregnancy, and theyt eat sub 60 day raw milk cheese.

Well, they may be kicking and screaming ( >:D) but the advice is the same nowadays in France. Avoid raw milk cheeses...
My sister-in-law is expecting and she is really not happy about this because she's the kind of person that will have cheese ice cream for dessert.

Jeff - Congratulations! I hope you are pampering your lady.

Offline gemma.tyson

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Hey Jeff, maybe ask your doctor if it is the raw milk or the culture that you add to the cheese that is the problem.
I'm a nurse and I know that the same recommendations are made in Australia.  If nothing else it may throw him to know that people
actually make their own cheeses.  Just got one of my local doctors interested in the hobby.  Could be worth a laugh if nothing else  O0