Going for Gooey and Sinful

[Boofer]

June 29:

This is my first try at Reblochon. I was inspired by the French video showing their process as well as all the other folks who have passed by here previously. Thank you all.

So here we go.

2 gallons Dungeness Valley raw milk
1 gallon Cozy Valley Creamery raw milk
3/8 tsp MM100
1/16 tsp Thermo
1/16 tsp LH
1/16 tsp Geo
1/16 tsp SR3
1/16 tsp P. Candidum
1/32 tsp KL71
1/32 tsp dry calf rennet

2:30PM pH 6.78 Added cultures to cold milk, began heating
3:30PM pH 6.72 @78.8F

4:10PM pH 6.61 @85F
4:35PM pH 6.55 @86.5F

5:10PM pH 6.50 @88F
Dissolved rennet in cold distilled water.
Stirred into milk.

5:26PM Flocculation in 16min
Using multiplier of 5 because I want it gooey.
Time to cut is in 80 min. ~6:45PM

6:45PM My meter says pH 5.45...oh, ExStick, are you playing with me?
Cut to 1 inch pieces.

Rest for 15 min.

7:05PM pH 5.97 - After cutting and whisking to hazelnut size - whey is milky with bits of milkfat.

Scalded to 92F, stirred for 15 min.

Drained 1 gal of whey for use in whey-brine later. (2 cups salt to 1/2 gal whey.)

Filled four small Kadova molds.
Pressed with gallon of whey on top of four molds for 10 min.
Flipped cheeses in molds and pressed for 10 more minutes.

Put Kadova molds in pot and pressed overnight with 5 lb weight.

June 30:
5:00AM Removed weight but kept cheeses in molds inside pot with lid on.
4:30PM Removed cheeses from molds and replaced in pot.
Added whey-brine to pot.
5:30PM Flipped cheeses in pot.
6:30PM Out of brine; dried cheeses, placed in minicave and into cave.
11:00PM 52.1F/94%RH

July 1:
5:00AM 52.1F/96%RH

I realize the Kadova molds are a bit smaller than regulation Reblochon molds, but I think they will be okay for this effort.
The knit turned out pretty fair because of the netting in the mold.

I intend to begin washing with 3% brine tomorrow.

This should be interesting.

-Boofer-

[ArnaudForestier]

Looks great, Boof!  Looking forward to seeing these develop.  Jealous of your smaller kadovas...I've got a 2 kg, and lusting after a 3 kg, for my Beaufort.  Nice knit, nice look!

[Helen]

Looking good! And all raw milk!

Thanks for your detailed report. Makes me want to make more reblochons.

[OudeKaas]

Yes, great (and hunger-inducing) photo documentation! Wonderful irregular little curd-pillows. Looking forward to updates . . . . mmmm.

[Boofer]

There's something happenin' here...what it is, ain't exactly clear....

Yeah!!!  White fuzzy growth! Huzzah!

-Boofer-

[ArnaudForestier]

Aw, Boof - Stephen Stills, my man, and cheese.....doesn't get better.  Congrats! 

[susanky]

They look great!  One question.  Why did you get you milk from 2 different sources?  Why not get all 3 gallons from the same creamery?  Just curious.
Susan

[Brie]

Hey Boof--looking good--that's the P. C. that going on there--not normally added to Reblochon (other than a final spray toward the end of affinage, but I don't really add it at all. You may want to wipe that back a bit for true Reblochon.

[ArnaudForestier]

Hey Boof--looking good--that's the P. C. that going on there--not normally added to Reblochon (other than a final spray toward the end of affinage, but I don't really add it at all. You may want to wipe that back a bit for true Reblochon.

You know, it's interesting - every recipe I've seen, includes PC as a small component; cheesemaking.com adds it as a "pinch" vat inoculant, for "late stage" development.  That said, with every one of my makes, I've always seen PC come on fast, and furious, at the outset, and I've either washed it back, with a 3% linens wash, or allowed it to run its course somewhat, for a week to 10 days, then washed back.  Either way, it's always been very close on the heels of an early geo dusting - never a late stage development, if inoculated in the vat.

I don't really know why PC would even be required, or part of a reb profile, given yeast(s), geo, and brevibacteria, except perhaps to lend a kind of mushroomy note to the other flavor components, and aid in proteolysis - but that seems covered by the other flora, in spades.

[linuxboy]

PC is a "cheat" in rebs because we don't have stable complex mixes in the US to recreate it. True rebs do not have PC. Commercially have to try and replicate or approximate flavor, and PC is nicely proteolytic for that.

[Boofer]

They look great!  One question.  Why did you get you milk from 2 different sources?  Why not get all 3 gallons from the same creamery?  Just curious.
Susan

Well, I had the one gallon already. It had been around for several days. I intended to do something else with it but I looked long and hard at this make and decided at the last minute to make it a 3-gallon affair. Ta-da!

Hey Boof--looking good--that's the P. C. that going on there--not normally added to Reblochon (other than a final spray toward the end of affinage, but I don't really add it at all. You may want to wipe that back a bit for true Reblochon.

Got it. I had been looking at a number of recipes, but I don't think I saw yours. Do you have it handy?

How can you distinguish between PC and Geo? They're both white.

You know, it's interesting - every recipe I've seen, includes PC as a small component; cheesemaking.com adds it as a "pinch" vat inoculant, for "late stage" development.  That said, with every one of my makes, I've always seen PC come on fast, and furious, at the outset, and I've either washed it back, with a 3% linens wash, or allowed it to run its course somewhat, for a week to 10 days, then washed back.  Either way, it's always been very close on the heels of an early geo dusting - never a late stage development, if inoculated in the vat.

I don't really know why PC would even be required, or part of a reb profile, given yeast(s), geo, and brevibacteria, except perhaps to lend a kind of mushroomy note to the other flavor components, and aid in proteolysis - but that seems covered by the other flora, in spades.

Too much, huh? Hey, nobody mention the kitchen sink. 

Help a fella find the right mix. Can ya' spare a culture?   

PC is a "cheat" in rebs because we don't have stable complex mixes in the US to recreate it. True rebs do not have PC. Commercially have to try and replicate or approximate flavor, and PC is nicely proteolytic for that.

So to get the gooeyness I seek, I need to add the PC.

-Boofer-

[ArnaudForestier]

PC is a "cheat" in rebs because we don't have stable complex mixes in the US to recreate it. True rebs do not have PC. Commercially have to try and replicate or approximate flavor, and PC is nicely proteolytic for that.

This notion of PC showing up as a late component, though - typically, as I've seen it, at the same time, as a vat inoculant.  I've never seen it late, always early.  I understand the role that geo can play in checking PC, just not sure why the proteolysis isn't covered by the yeast(s), geo, brevibacteria.  Basically, I'm looking for that dry rind, obvious linens, with the late-stage, geo, powdery white dusting.  The "rebs" I've made have all been really pleasing, but never that dry-dust effect, and I wonder how much of that is due to the use of PC, and its early, aggressive blanketing. 

Ecce caseus. 



It may have already been effaced, but I can't see any evidence here of PC, only geo.  And interestingly enough, looking closely at the image - the inner paste is gooey, the paste towards the rind is firmer, the reverse of the expected gradient.   

Thoughts?

[Brie]

Boof and Arnie: I follow member SueV's recipe, which she got from attending Jim Wallace's workshop, although I do not add any PC at all. I do take this cheese out of the cave at least twice per week and let it breathe. At this time I also add a spray of salt water with a pinch of b.linens mixed in. That is what helps with the soft paste.

[linuxboy]

You do not necessarily need PC. IMHO, it makes it too strong. I don't know what it means to have late stage proteolysis or late stage appearance. Maybe aminopeptidolysis, but you don't get that with PC usually. Usually, that happens due to synergistic combinations of yeast and b linens or yeasts together, and sometimes geo. For reb, I would do a yeast that is moderately proteolytic, a b linens that is moderately proteolytic, and a geo that interacts with it (hopefully this is in a large cave and there are multiple geos). PC can sometimes show up in a cave, but typically doesn't for reb.

Or, slurry the rind and do that. It's somewhat tricky to do on a small scale.

the gradient is a property of reb due to the affinage. You have high MFFB in the wheel, then you put it on those old boards, and it loses water at 85-90 RH (or maybe a bit higher, have to balance water loss and maturation rate. You don't want b linens running wild, though). And in the meatime, it will go through the typical progression of growing geo, and then b linens/reblochonii. So the enzyme action breaks it down, all the while it's losing water, creating this effect. Can help it along by brining in saturated brine to create a moisture gradient. It's tricky, though because you need a good surface Aw level to encourage the right blend and succession.

[ArnaudForestier]

Just a couple of notes.  With Brie, going to try a series without any P. candidum.  Also, no linens in the wash, depending only on a 3% plain brine. 

By one study I read, the geo found in reblochon is typically yeast-form geo, and not filamentous, mold form geo  - e.g., geo 15, over geo 13 or 17:

Yeast-like colony morphology predominated in Reblochon, while all of the strains isolated from St. Nectaire were filamentous.

Boof, just noticed you're using both Thermo C and LH - you may know this already, but in the event not, Thermo C already has L. helveticus in it, as does LH.  I'd be a bit cautious on overusing helveticus, but I'm interested to see what you come up with. 

Just an FYI for anyone curious, I'm using both SR3 and LB as my brevi. cultures.  I wanted to make a slightly more ivory-orange cast, over a pure, brighter orange tint to the cheese; and appreciate the stronger proteolytics of the LB, something I wouldn't mind in this cheese.  Will keep everyone posted. 

the gradient is a property of reb due to the affinage. You have high MFFB in the wheel, then you put it on those old boards, and it loses water at 85-90 RH. And in the meatime, it will go through the typical progression of growing geo, and then b linens/reblochonii. So the enzyme action breaks it down, all the while it's losing water, creating this effect. Can help it along by brining in saturated brine to create a moisture gradient. It's tricky, though because you need a good surface Aw level to encourage the right blend and succession.

Very cool!  Now, how the heck do I achieve this, particularly in a Beaufort cave, at 94%, or in an aging container, at 98%?  No longer using PC, no worries about contaminating the fridge with PC, but the Beauforts are a monster's brew....yikes, I need another cave.