Author Topic: 30 Gallon capacity - semi-machine; cheap?  (Read 8273 times)

Offline ArnaudForestier

  • Old Cheese
  • *****
  • Location: Madison, Wisconsin
  • Posts: 1,546
  • Cheeses: 45
  • Default personal text
    • Paul's FB
30 Gallon capacity - semi-machine; cheap?
« on: July 01, 2011, 08:00:44 PM »
OK, have tossed around some numbers.  Assuming a 30 gallon vat need, any thoughts, ideas, suggestions on a cheap, dependable vat idea, of this scale, that would pass muster with most U.S. food inspectors?

"Cheap and dependable" - in the family of:  "Cheap, good quality, or quickly acquired; You can pick 2 of these 3."  So, given time, a good, cheap vat idea, that may take some scrounging.
- Paul

Jaspar

  • Guest
Re: 30 Gallon capacity - semi-machine; cheap?
« Reply #1 on: July 01, 2011, 08:10:39 PM »
I remember reading about a couple of people using cut off beer kegs. I'm not sure how big this would be. How are you planning on heating it, or you looking for a vat with heat?
       Jaspar

PS check this out http://www.kitchenfantasy.com/shopping_cart/stockpots.html

Offline ArnaudForestier

  • Old Cheese
  • *****
  • Location: Madison, Wisconsin
  • Posts: 1,546
  • Cheeses: 45
  • Default personal text
    • Paul's FB
Re: 30 Gallon capacity - semi-machine; cheap?
« Reply #2 on: July 01, 2011, 08:25:35 PM »
Jaspar, thanks.  I'm actually talking about a commercial option, that would pass inspector-muster, but don't need top of the line, automatic, etc., esp. at this scale.  I am weighing
direct heat, but don't know that I've seen the option as allowable in cheese facilities (have seen it in breweries....I just don't know on creameries) and fully manual op - e.g., a cheese harp, fire, and
that's it.  On the other hand, I do have some physical issues, and so may have to make accommodations accordingly, so perhaps a simple agitation system for stirring, once the curd
is cut.  I know in the Alps, which is where my desires tend to, I've seen a hybrid of both - direct fired, with either gas or wood, and an old workhorse motor and agitation paddle.  Again,
not sure how that flies here, in the States.
- Paul

Sailor Con Queso

  • Guest
Re: 30 Gallon capacity - semi-machine; cheap?
« Reply #3 on: July 01, 2011, 10:02:17 PM »
You should check out my setup

Boone Creek Creamery

I use this every day and couldn't be happier with the setup. This week I made Parmesan, my Abbey Road, Cheshire, Asiago, and a Castle Blue (which isn't pressed). The only major change I have made is increasing the heating element to 6000w. This is not common at your local hardware store but easy to find on E-bay or by special order at a plumbing supply house. I spent less than $15 plus About $6 shipping for mine.

I have also added a stainless pump with a foot operated switch to transfer whey, drain the "vat", and help with utility tasks. BIG help and eliminates a lot of the grunt work when cleaning up.

Even if your Milk Safety Inspector approved of it, the Fire Marshal would probably never allow direct heat or open flames.

FYI - that biggest pot that Japar pointed to is a good deal. A little bigger than mine too - damn.  ;)

Offline ArnaudForestier

  • Old Cheese
  • *****
  • Location: Madison, Wisconsin
  • Posts: 1,546
  • Cheeses: 45
  • Default personal text
    • Paul's FB
Re: 30 Gallon capacity - semi-machine; cheap?
« Reply #4 on: July 01, 2011, 10:27:18 PM »
Thanks a bunch, Sailor - will take a look!

On the direct flame, <<Sigh>>, I had thought so.There's only one brewery I know of that did a direct fire, Three Floyd's.  To this day, I still don't know how they got away with that beast, a jet flame across an open channel, to the side of the
kettle.

Edit: You know, I hadn't looked at this in a while, Sailor.  I remember how elegant your make room was, but that was early on in my time here - really happy to see it again, thanks for pointing me your way. :)

Edit, part II:  Jaspar, or Sailor, do you know if those stockpots are aluminum or copper clad-bottomed?  I guess it wouldn't make a difference, if going with water bath or jacketing, but just curious.
« Last Edit: July 01, 2011, 10:43:10 PM by ArnaudForestier »
- Paul

linuxboy

  • Guest
Re: 30 Gallon capacity - semi-machine; cheap?
« Reply #5 on: July 02, 2011, 06:24:51 AM »
With manual stir, and not self-contained? Meaning you have to recirculate water to heat it, you can get a used tilting kettle at auction for $300-$500 in the 30-40 gal size.

Offline ArnaudForestier

  • Old Cheese
  • *****
  • Location: Madison, Wisconsin
  • Posts: 1,546
  • Cheeses: 45
  • Default personal text
    • Paul's FB
Re: 30 Gallon capacity - semi-machine; cheap?
« Reply #6 on: July 02, 2011, 08:00:20 AM »
Had forgotten about these - great idea too, thanks, Pav.
- Paul

linuxboy

  • Guest
Re: 30 Gallon capacity - semi-machine; cheap?
« Reply #7 on: July 02, 2011, 08:21:37 AM »
Also, if you want to stir, get a tilting kettle with lid and buy a surplus stirrer. Drill a hole in the lid, and rig up a way to mount the stirrer and motor to some sort of support arm. Put a variable speed control on it and call it done. And cut with a harp, use the agitator paddle so you don't stand over the vat. Not expensive.

Offline steffb503

  • Catskill Mts, NY State, USA
  • Old Cheese
  • *****
  • Posts: 595
  • Cheeses: 11
    • M & S Farm
Re: 30 Gallon capacity - semi-machine; cheap?
« Reply #8 on: July 02, 2011, 09:52:50 AM »
I have a Microdairy design. I checked out the kettle but I would still need to redo the lid add an agitator, buy thermometers get chart recorder. I would need some one to do the work and then hope it passed inspection. By the time I was down it cost the same as a new complete unit .
Frank and his wife are extremely accommodating.
www.microdairy.com.
Not sure about cheap but worth every penny.

Jaspar

  • Guest
Re: 30 Gallon capacity - semi-machine; cheap?
« Reply #9 on: July 02, 2011, 10:23:55 AM »
The 100 qt. is Stainless steel clad

Offline ArnaudForestier

  • Old Cheese
  • *****
  • Location: Madison, Wisconsin
  • Posts: 1,546
  • Cheeses: 45
  • Default personal text
    • Paul's FB
Re: 30 Gallon capacity - semi-machine; cheap?
« Reply #10 on: July 02, 2011, 07:20:36 PM »
The 100 qt. is Stainless steel clad

What I mean to say, is the sandwiching ss on either side of a better conductive material, e.g., copper or aluminum?

@Steff:  Steff, I've heard good things about the company as well, notably, in terms of their service after sale.  I think for me, coming in small, I want to come in as cheaply as possible, in the event
I find people are dying so badly for my brilliance ( ::)), I'd have cause to expand.  So I think Sailor's, Jaspar's or Pav's notions are likely steering my course.  But thanks very much for
the suggestion.  Glad it's working well for you.

@Pav:  thanks for the add'l thought, motor with a rheostat of some sort.  Very feasible.  I also like Sailor's design a good deal - a nice, tight make room, it seems.  Good options, gents, thanks.

While I'm here:  presuming 6 cows.  I know Gianaclis Caldwell, in her book, discusses "more than 3" cows as a possible tipping point, between portable milkers and buckets, and
a pipeline system, in the parlor.  I've no real idea of costs, for a small, mostly sweat-equity built, pipeline parlor.  Any thoughts on cost-benefit for 6 cows, between the two systems?

I ask, because though I know there's little labor difference between a 30 and a 300 gallon batch of cheese; but there's a tremendous difference in time and labor between 1 cow, and 6.  So,
any thoughts, much appreciated.
« Last Edit: July 02, 2011, 07:27:12 PM by ArnaudForestier »
- Paul

wharris

  • Guest
Re: 30 Gallon capacity - semi-machine; cheap?
« Reply #11 on: July 02, 2011, 07:31:31 PM »
IThe only major change I have made is increasing the heating element to 6000w.
Why wouldn't you go with 3X2000watt elements, instead of 1X6000watt element?
I tend to like multiple elements, as i can bring more elements online as required.
But I would love to get your thoughts on this as I am completely rebuilding everything.

glasman

  • Guest
Re: 30 Gallon capacity - semi-machine; cheap?
« Reply #12 on: July 02, 2011, 07:33:49 PM »
i have several ss kettles that i don't use and would love to find a home for them. 40 to 60 gallons some with full jackets. groen models. vic

Sailor Con Queso

  • Guest
Re: 30 Gallon capacity - semi-machine; cheap?
« Reply #13 on: July 02, 2011, 07:51:46 PM »
Wayne - when I want heat, I want it fast and hot then shut down. The single 6000w was inexpensive and easy to install. I use a digital Ronco controller with a 220 relay to handle the amperage. Incorporating a second element would mean adding a second controller. If I were going to do that, I would add a second 6000w, but I don't see that as necessary. The only time that might come in handy is heating thermos quickly to 125F or so.

linuxboy

  • Guest
Re: 30 Gallon capacity - semi-machine; cheap?
« Reply #14 on: July 02, 2011, 08:43:17 PM »
Quote
While I'm here:  presuming 6 cows.  I know Gianaclis Caldwell, in her book, discusses "more than 3" cows as a possible tipping point, between portable milkers and buckets, and
a pipeline system, in the parlor.  I've no real idea of costs, for a small, mostly sweat-equity built, pipeline parlor.  Any thoughts on cost-benefit for 6 cows, between the two systems?
Hauling all that milk isn't that much fun after a while, but not terrible with 6. You can also do a hybrid, and install a line, but not pump into a tank, and instead filter in line and pump into buckets. There are in-between systems, not just a simple choice between a portable milker, and a full pipeline.