Author Topic: Starter Culture - How Can One Style Produce So Many Cheeses?  (Read 3482 times)

beeman

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Starter Culture - How Can One Style Produce So Many Cheeses?
« on: January 16, 2009, 02:30:59 AM »
Might be stupid questions from a newbie, but I have to ask.
Cultures. How can one style of culture produce so many cheeses? Presumably a Mesophilic starter from one source is the same from a different supplier?
Am I then to assume that each cheese tastes the same but the acid levels and textures are different? Does not the starter determine the taste?
Leeners list two Mesophilic starters, for a variety of cheese, but Ricki Carrol only quotes one type for a similar cheese range.

Offline Cartierusm

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Re: Starter Culture - How Can One Style Produce So Many Cheeses?
« Reply #1 on: January 16, 2009, 05:45:22 AM »
Beeman, there are not stupid questions just stupid people...like me. But I digest.

Ok, so you just asked the most important and most interesting question of all. How do I begin? Yes all meso based and thermo based starters are the same (pretty much), the same strain of bacteris that is. They change sugars and other substances into lactic acid. Ricki's Carroll book sucks...there I said it. When it was new back in 1982 it was helpful and not so pretensious, now the new edition, 2002, well let's say it sucks...again. This is not a book reveiw and I plan on doing one to correct her many mistakes. I digest... There are many recipes that use different cultures to produce different cheeses, but what they all have in common is they have to have either a basic meso or thermo with it. So for Parmesan I use TA61 thermo and LH100 an additional thermo for hard italian cheeses. What sets each cheese apart from one anther is a complex subject that my fingers can't handle the full explanation but I'll summaize. Heating temp, amount of acid produced, milk type, milk fat content, pressure, aging conditions, other molds or bacteria, cooking time, curd size, cooking temp..all these variables produce cheese that are vastly different cheeses. I know it sounds like a miracle to produce cheeses that don't look like their from the same food group, but just think what can be done with eggs, water and flour..you get bead, cake, matzah and a million different things. I hope that helps.

cozcoester

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Re: Starter Culture - How Can One Style Produce So Many Cheeses?
« Reply #2 on: January 16, 2009, 06:20:45 AM »
I myself have pondered this same subject.  The place I purchase my cheese making supplies from, until recently, only carried the basic meso and thermo cultures.  They are currently attempting to expand into the more specific cultures.

Cheese Head

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Re: Starter Culture - How Can One Style Produce So Many Cheeses?
« Reply #3 on: January 16, 2009, 12:44:26 PM »
beeman, not to be unkind to Ricki's great book, but I find it does tend to steer you towards internet Cheese Making Supply Stores for some things you do not need to go for, plus her website/store does have limited range of cultures matching her book's recipe's ingredients.

There is a greater range of cultures available. When researching it I built an info page on Culture Manufacturers and an info page on Manufactured Cultures that I could find in the small scale market. If you look in CHR Hansen's PDF guides, you will see an even greater range in the commercially available cultures. Plus many artisan cheese makers around the world have their own proprietary cultures, some breed over 100's of years :).

So as you can see, not all mesophilic cultures are the same as I count 6 different meso cultures in many manufactured combinations. Plus many recipes use combination of meso and Thermophilic Cultures further complicating things and some also use Ripening Cultures and/or Lipase's adding even more complexity. Also I'm not sure of this but I've read that basically there are subspecies of subspecies, ie Lactococcus Lactis subspecies Biovar Diacetylactis from one manufacturer may be different from that of another manufacturer.

So, those culture differences, plus as Carter said above, all the other cheese making variables or time, temp, and method, enable one or another or natural cultures to flourish and help each cheese to have it's different distinctive aroma, texture, and flavour. Making the whole world of cheese making extraordinarily complex and entertaining!

All of this is basically why my cheese makings turn out differently each time :D.
« Last Edit: January 16, 2009, 01:07:45 PM by Cheese Head »

beeman

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Re: Starter Culture - How Can One Style Produce So Many Cheeses?
« Reply #4 on: January 16, 2009, 08:13:52 PM »
Good info. Thanks.
Just to go a little further, if I may. Looking around it would appear that Gouda/Edam are lumped together, but having lived in Holland for some time, these are two different cheeses. For me to make an Edam similar to what I know as Edam would require a great deal of experimentation?
So where does one start to find the information to modify the basic recipe? Only trial and error?

Cheese Head

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Re: Starter Culture - How Can One Style Produce So Many Cheeses?
« Reply #5 on: January 17, 2009, 12:51:27 AM »
Ask and I am happy to oblige ;D.

I just added an Edam Cheese Making Recipe to the website's Recipes Area. Same ingredients as Gouda, different methodology.

I'll clean up the Gouda Recipe tomorrow.

PS: Pictues of Dutch cheesemongers here and more here. What were doing in NL?

merlin

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Re: Starter Culture - How Can One Style Produce So Many Cheeses?
« Reply #6 on: January 17, 2009, 02:41:59 AM »
AND one of my favorite differences is the type of feed the animal eats and the climate that those animals live in.  That's one of the reasons some people prefer California Cheddar over New York State Cheddar.

beeman

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Re: Starter Culture - How Can One Style Produce So Many Cheeses?
« Reply #7 on: January 17, 2009, 03:09:07 AM »

 What were doing in NL?

I am getting there now, thanks to your helpful information.Now I'll get on with making some.
I am ex-military, RAF, stationed on the Dutch/German border in the early 60s. Used to go to Holland for a Ham and Cheese sandwich. Best Edam ever, far better than the oversized erasers we buy here in North America.

Cheese Head

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Re: Starter Culture - How Can One Style Produce So Many Cheeses?
« Reply #8 on: January 17, 2009, 03:48:00 AM »
Good man, my Grandfather was in the British Navy for 1/2 his career spanning WW1 & 2. I work for Shell Petroleum with HQ in Den Haag thought maybe same company.