How does everyone bring their milk up to starting temperature?

[Likesspace]

I was just reading another post and saw that at least one member brings his store bought milk up to the recipe starting temp by floating it in a water bath. I found this very interesting since I've always taken it right ouf of the fridge and brought it up quickly via direct heat.
Well today I did things a little differently (not by choice but by necessity)......
This morning I made a Gouda out of 4 gallons of milk.
Knowing that I was also going to do a 2 gallon batch of Camembert this afternoon I went ahead and bought all 6 gallons of milk at once.
Well our fridge is pretty full so I just set the two gallons out on the table where they rested for about 2 - 3 hours. By the time I put them in the pot to make the Camembert, they were right at 63 degrees F.
Now what I found interesting is that while I was bringing the milk on up to temp, I started getting little "flecks" of what looked like curd sticking to my spoon. What it really looked like was Mozzerella milk, immediately after you add the citric acid (although not nearly as severe). I only noticed a few of these flecks sticking to the spoon but the milk also felt.....hmmmm....more heavy, or more thick in the pot, as well.
Now what I'm wondering is if this slow temp chage affected the acidity of my store bought milk. I will say that Chillipepper got a lot better curd formation than I usually do, according to the pics on his/her Farmhouse Cheddar post. This is the thing that REALLY started me thinking about this subject.
In another 30 minutes I'll be checking for a good clean beak on my Camembert curd and then I should know if this helps form a better curd. Of course this will only be one test batch but at least it will give me something to consider for future batches.
Don't know if this might be the answer we've been looking for, Carter, but I'll let you know.

Dave

[saycheese]

Hi, I usually place the cold milk in a 3 gallon pot and place the pot in a water bath in the sink -- adjusting the water bath temp to slowly bring the milk to the needed temperature.

[Tea]

To answer your question Dave I usually water jacket heat my milk.  That way it prevents the bottom of the milk from scorching, and getting to hot.  More even a heating of the milk solids.

Just query on the "milk flecks"?  To me it would indicate one of two things.  Either the cream layer had clotted, or the milk was going off.  Fleck of white in fresh milk should not be, so I would question the freshness of the milk.  I maybe way off base here, but I would have been lery of using the milk.
So how did it turn out in the end?

[Likesspace]

First of all, thanks for the replies....
Now, here's what happened.
When I posted that I was ready to see if I had gotten a clean break, I had temporarily lost my mind. I was not waiting to see if I had gotten a clean break...I was waiting to pitch the rennet. Well after doing that, I then had a two hour wait before cutting time.
As for the milk, the use by date was still well over a week away and the milk smelled very good. I always check before using.
I did add one pint of whipping cream to this batch, as I've taken to doing on every cheese. It does seem to make a better curd so it might have been the cream seperating a bit.
But.....
Here's the good news. I got the BEST curd I've ever had!!
Now remember, I did NOT warm this milk in a water bath. The only thing I did differently was to leave it sit on the kitchen table for probably close to three hours and then I did my typical direct heat process to bring the milk to 90 degrees (from 60 degrees).
The curd was firm.....had a TRUE clean beak and held together, even during the ladling into the molds.
Also, I normally just have enough curd to fill 4 camembert molds out of a two gallon batch. This time I filled 5 molds and still had to pour a little bit down the drain. I can't begin to tell you all how excited I am about this accidental discovery.
This is the same milk I've been using pretty much all winter. I can't imagine that there was anything different about this two gallons than any other that I've used.
Now I'm thinking about making something else tomorrow afternoon just to see if I can duplicate these results.
So, without further adieu, here's a couple of shots of the curd that I got. The nasty looking place in the center is where I checked for a clean break, using a knife (my usual method).
CARTER?.....ARE YOU READING THIS? YOU HAVE TO GIVE THIS A TRY!

[Likesspace]

I forgot to put one thing in my previous post....
This is a two hour set on the rennet. Most of my cheeses I cut the curd at the 45 minute mark. I don't know if this process will work as well on a shorter set time, but I will probably just start testing for a clean break at the 45 minute mark and then let it go until I DO see a clean break.
Also, in my past attempts at Camembert, even after two hours, I got the same softish curd set that I always seem to see. It's not that it was a terrible set, but NOTHING like this one.
Carter.....do you usually put your milk, straight into the pot, out of the fridge and then bring it up to temp quickly?
If so, between the two of us, we might be able to prove this out.

Dave

[Cartierusm]

Wow, those curds look great. I'm a little fuzzy in the head today Dave so excuse my stupid questions, I'm fuzzy 'cause I was out in the shop building you stuff. Anyway, so what you're saying is slow heating of the milk is what you did, heating by means of leaving it to acclimate to room temp?

I always slow heat my milk. When I pour it in the vat, the vat is in room temp water and I let it set a while to adjust. Then I heat no more than 2 degrees every 5 minutes.

When cooking the curds, raising up from starter temp to final temp, you absolutely have to cook slow no more than 2 degrees every 5 minutes.

[Likesspace]

Carter,
I also raise the temp no more than two degrees every 5 minutes, during the cooking stage.
What I'm talking about is when I first put the milk into the vat.
I've always just taken it out of the fridge (probably at 38 degrees) and then quickly raised the temp to whatever the recipe called for (say 86 for a Gouda) over direct heat.
I then ripend the starter (again, for a Gouda this would be one hour).....added the rennet (usually let it sit for 45 minutes) and then cut the curd.
The only thing I did differently on this batch was to let the milk sit on my kitchen table for about three hours. When I put it into the vat it was 60 degrees and then I quickly raised it to 90 degrees (as the recipe called for).
After that I gave it the two hour set and found a fantastic curd waiting for me when I went to cut it. Yeah, I'm pretty excited about this.
Tomorrow I'm going to try a Parmesan using the same method. I don't know what the result will be but I'm anxious to find out. I really hope this is the answer to getting a quality curd out of store bought milk.
Hope I made myself clear this time.

Dave

[Likesspace]

Hmmm.....
I just re-read your post. What are you building special for me?
Come on, spill the beans. I hate being kept in the dark!   

Dave

[Cartierusm]

You'll have to wait. I've standardized all my presses so they are uniform. I'll be opening a website soon. I figured why not. I really didn't intend to do this but I just transfered my other companies to a new registrar and hosing so the new domain name only costs me $1.99 a year and the hosting is included. I'll be offering all my used equipment there too and I'll post in the for sale sections when the websites up and running.

[Likesspace]

Okay, sheesh I'll wait. Did I mention that I hate being left in the dark? Okay, you don't care. That's fine. :-)
Carter, the following quote might interest you.
This was made by a fellow cheesemaker (on the other board) that uses fresh raw milk. This was exactly what I was hoping to hear when I posted the pics of my curd and the information that I put in this thread. Here's what he had to say:

Dave, I’ve not made a camembert, but you’re right - that curd looks fantastic.  It closely resembles the curd I get from farm fresh milk.  Also, with my milk, it never gets cooled, so I don’t have all that much heating to do.  But I can imaging that the speed of heating must have some kind of effect on the milk.  It certainly does on the curd during the cooking process.  Maybe we’ll all benefit from your experimentation.  Well done, bro!  Observation is the key to scientific experimentation.

As I said before, I don't know if this was a fluke or if I've actually stumbled onto something significant but the fact that this curd looks like fresh milk curd is very promising.
I'll be posting my results tomorrow. Wish me luck.

Dave

[Likesspace]

Carter..
Make sure you send me the link once you get your website up and running. Seriously, I'm very interested in what you'll turn out next.

[narelle]

i have always used direct heat and low temp takes about 15 mins

[Cartierusm]

As I said I heat slowly and always have. It usually takes me 2 hours to bring milk up to temp.

The problem with most people who make something is those LITTLE things we all take for granted. That's why I always am observant when ever I make things. I've always been fascinated with what we take for granted as those are the little things that turn out to be the deciding factor.

[Cheese Head]

Carter, guess that makes you not a big fan of the very popular California Don't Sweat the Small Stuff series of self help books .

[Cartierusm]

Not at all, what's a self help book? It's small details that are important.