Author Topic: Capturing cheese cultures in the wild!  (Read 878 times)

Offline Tiarella

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Re: Capturing cheese cultures in the wild!
« Reply #45 on: June 17, 2015, 05:53:00 AM »
When you say it's "cultured" what do you mean?  I don't expect to see whey as proof of culture...that happens after addition of rennet except when milks are thoroughly clabbered. Do you have a Ph meter?  I don't but that would be one way to see if the cultures have gotten up to populations able to actively "work" the milk.  I bet someone on this forum will have much better and concise info than I but just wanted to mention this.....   ???

Offline TimT

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Re: Capturing cheese cultures in the wild!
« Reply #46 on: June 17, 2015, 05:57:12 AM »
Well I didn't add rennet...

Offline TimT

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Re: Capturing cheese cultures in the wild!
« Reply #47 on: June 17, 2015, 06:05:57 AM »
Honestly, after a day of culturing I would have thought whatever cultures are in there will have had time to get a strong hold. Bacteria would double their numbers pretty quickly - in an hour? - and will keep on doing that in the right conditions, which I've been trying to give them.

Online Shane

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Re: Capturing cheese cultures in the wild!
« Reply #48 on: June 17, 2015, 06:07:11 AM »
It sounds like quark. I make it by adding mesophillic starter (or buttermilk) to milk. I heat it to 31°C and let it sit overnight at ambient. After around 12 hours it separates.

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Offline Tiarella

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Re: Capturing cheese cultures in the wild!
« Reply #49 on: June 17, 2015, 09:26:46 AM »
I bet someone will have more info about your results. The one that showed whey, which jar was that?  Did you see my post about Lackadaisical cheese?  It's initial working name was "Cheese in a jar" because it was all native cultures that were in the raw milk and no heat, no nothing except a bit of rennet at some point, no fancy timing of phases, etc.  I couldn't make hard cheeses this way but with the addition of Geo and PC I did make some Valencay style of cheeses. 

Offline TimT

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Re: Capturing cheese cultures in the wild!
« Reply #50 on: June 17, 2015, 07:05:26 PM »
The attempt at thermophilic culture clabbered; the mesophilic one is.... er, still working.

There's definitely not enough for cheese - I wasn't intending to have cheese at this point, just get myself a base culture. Which I think I do...!

Chevre is another kind of cheese made with little or no rennet, and it must often be made from fresh milk - I've never been game to make a non-rennet chevre but a lot of the recipes I read seem to be quite vague about the amounts of rennet used. For instance, one says '1/8th of a teaspoon rennet'. Yeah, good luck measuring that one out. (The trick is to make larger quantities - pour a teaspoon in a couple of cups of water, stir to dissolve, and then split it up - I like the absurdity of the precise-yet-tiny measure, though). Rikki Carroll's recipe for chevre just says 'chevre making kit' - which must include a special chevre culture. Not sure if it has rennet?!? Not being a USian I haven't been able to check!

Offline Gregore

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Re: Capturing cheese cultures in the wild!
« Reply #51 on: June 18, 2015, 09:13:32 AM »
The art of natural cheese making , by david Asher will be out for sale in a month or so , I know I look forward to what he has to say on the matter.

My thought would be that if  you cultured to a yogurt like state for multiple times you should end up with something safe to eat.

Also raw milk farms are tested every few weeks for bad stuff so if you made cheese that is aged over 60 days you will hear about any recalls  before it is time to eat .

Another point is that more people get sick and die  by a factor of 10 from cured meats  than from raw milk ,and we still put salami on our pizza and smile as we give it to our children

 and your way more likely to get hurt driving to the store to get your raw milk than drinking it .

The point I am trying to make here is the the human brain is not rational when it comes to saftey , things we do often and don't get hurt that are dangerous and rationalized as safe and things we very rarely do and hear about some one dieing from cause us fear.

Not to say we should not talk about the risks just keep them in proportion to our daily risk quota

Bugs are everywhere good and bad and most science now no longer believes the "Pasture theory " of 1 bug and your sick , they now feel it takes an over load of bad bugs and an immune system that is not prepared and or run down  for there to be disease / sickness.

And I have to say that when I drink raw milk I get that little voice in the back of my head that says take care it could be dangerous , but I just smile drink my milk and reach for my car keys .

Offline TimT

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Re: Capturing cheese cultures in the wild!
« Reply #52 on: June 21, 2015, 05:31:16 AM »
Okay, I've made my first cheese from these cultures today!

I loosely followed a Jack recipe in Mary Karlin's book but because it included thermophilic culture as well as meso I had to heat the curds up more to give the heat-loving cultures a chance to really get working.

I was also a lazy bastard with the cheese and it had extended curdling time (about 1 hr), extended cooking time, etc.

So basically I reckon it'll be a wee bit more acidic than Jack cheeses normally are. I think this is probably advisable for a first run with wild cultures anyway, as it'll act as added protection against any other nasties that might come in the milk.

I've had a taste of both of the cultures and the curds and they've got a pleasant mild yoghurty taste. Nothing like the harsh metallic zing some cultures will have (our house yoghurt, villi, which I use for most of my cheeses, had this metallic zing when we first started it off but it's lost it now - not sure why). The thermo curdled VERY strongly - I wonder if this is because some rennet enzymes were in the milk and worked better at higher temps? The meso had a less even clabber, and the curdling seemed a bit uneven. But then I did shift the jar several times during culturing....

I guess both my yoghurt samples have plenty meso and thermo cultures ready, but I don't have room for three yoghurt/cheese cultures in the fridge! So maybe I'll keep the thermophilic - I need a thermo; and when I made it it would have gone through several 'cool' patches where the meso cultures could have established themselves anyway. And the meso did seem to take longer and had less impressive results. So I might chuck it, sadly.

Of course there's always the chance I've ingested some unnaturally cultured beast and if you're reading this, I'm already dead. Tell my wife I love her! The needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few! And all that XXXX! But yeah. I think I've just got a plain bog standard yoghurt and all the scare stories we've been telling one another weren't true after all.