questions about making cheddar from goats milk

[smoky mountain girl]

I have a milk goat and would like to make cheddar but before I do can anyone give me some advice on a few things so I don't have to reinvent the wheel? I posted this in the dairy section then wasn't sure if that was a good place so here it goes again.

1.  Do you ever slice the curds and flip them like you do with cow milk cheddar?

2.  What is the best way to age it: wax, rind, or bandaging?  I'm interested in bandaging due to what Carroll's book says about it.

3.  What does it taste like compared to cow milk cheddar?

4.  Does anyone have a recipe for goat's milk cheddar they absolutely love?  Any other advice would be greatly appreciated.  Thanks a bunch.

[linuxboy]

1.  Do you ever slice the curds and flip them like you do with cow milk cheddar?

Yes, when making milled curd cheddar.

2.  What is the best way to age it: wax, rind, or bandaging?  I'm interested in bandaging due to what Carroll's book says about it.

What do you mean by best? They're all different and produce different outcomes. All taste good. What are you after?

3.  What does it taste like compared to cow milk cheddar?

Similar, but different. Depends on your milk and approach and aging and everything else. And, of course, does tend to have a light goaty tang.

4.  Does anyone have a recipe for goat's milk cheddar they absolutely love?  Any other advice would be greatly appreciated.  Thanks a bunch.

What flavor profile do you want? What functional properties. With cheddar, asking for a single recipe is like asking which breed of goat to own. There are a dozen core styles, and then regional variances.

[smoky mountain girl]

Thanks for answering.  I guess I don't know enough to know what I want.  That doesn't help does it?  I was going to try Carroll's goat cheddar recipe but I'd like to get a book called Goats Produce Too! Ever used either of those?

In Carroll's recipe you don't cut and flip the curd which might be best since it is easier.  How does that process affect the flavor?

What is the difference in milled curd cheddar and not milled.

I do like sharp cheddar, kindof crumbly, and not rubbery cheese like mild cheddar which I guess is governed by aging alone?

Also, in her directions it isn't clear to me if I'm supposed to break up the curd with my hands before salting and pressing or skip that step. 

Do you have goats?  Mine are Nubians.  Thanks.

[linuxboy]

Thanks for answering.  I guess I don't know enough to know what I want.  That doesn't help does it?

Hehe. Well, what do you like to eat?

  I was going to try Carroll's goat cheddar recipe but I'd like to get a book called Goats Produce Too! Ever used either of those?

Sure, but not for many years.

In Carroll's recipe you don't cut and flip the curd which might be best since it is easier.  How does that process affect the flavor?

Great question because it gets at the heart of the issue. So think about what's happening in both cases. When you have milled pieces of curd, as you stir them, they dehydrate, and develop minor variations in pH and, more importantly, fat. As you stir, that outer layer is damaged. In curd slabs, for the majority of the time, the curd is fused. The end result is that the stirred curd will not fuse as easily when you press it. And it tends to have more calcium loss and does not age as well. You can do either. The milled curd will actually mature just a little faster. But, it is harder to control quality with it.

What is the difference in milled curd cheddar and not milled.

The milled curd, you will have better quality curds, IMHO. Cheese is meant to be in contact with each other as long as possible and as soon as possible. When you break that up and keep the curds apart and stir them, you're introducing all these variations to what should be a homegenous mass. As a result, the final wheel tends to be internally less consistent. It will have gradients of moisture, fat level inconsistencies, etc. Salt usually is pretty even, though. Flavor wise, a milled curd to me tends to be more complex and better.

I do like sharp cheddar, kindof crumbly, and not rubbery cheese like mild cheddar which I guess is governed by aging alone?

Not only, but also. The drain (curd fuse) pH, and the mill/salt pH are crucial for cheddar. If you drain too high, it will be smoother, or suffer from postacidification, or will take a long time to age.

Also, in her directions it isn't clear to me if I'm supposed to break up the curd with my hands before salting and pressing or skip that step.

Yes, exactly. Break up/cut up, salt, pack into molds and press.

Do you have goats?  Mine are Nubians.  Thanks.

Yep, mostly ND crosses. I'm trying to collect them all. I hear there's a prize at the end if you do... Compost! (LOL. get it? end. prize. compost. That's right; it's a poop joke.)

[smoky mountain girl]

Very funny, I'll try that one on my girls.  OK, now I'm really scared.  I don't like the thought of wasting our milk (or time) on too many experiments.  Can you recommend a recipe with good directions that I should start with, one that has pH levels?  I want one good recipe to use over and over until I get it right (at least I think this is a good idea).

What about the Goats Produce Too! book?  would that be better?

Am I going to find Carroll's goat cheddar recipe inconsistent and disappointing?
What do you buy to test the pH?  So many questions....Thanks.

[linuxboy]

Can you recommend a recipe with good directions that I should start with, one that has pH levels?

I wrote one for you based on what you specified as the desired flavor and texture attributes. I made many notes in the doc to try and help you along, so you really understand this cheese and can make it consistently without wasting milk. Please see attached. Lots of shorthand details in there because it's 2 AM and I want to rest, so please ask questions if not clear.

What about the Goats Produce Too! book?  would that be better?

It's a tad better, yes. But honestly, this forum far exceeds both of them for cheesemaking. The recipe I just wrote for you, for example, is better than anything you can find in any common literature. I pre-tweaked the make to account for your milk type. Hopefully will not need major adjustments, but likely will need adjustments to time.

Am I going to find Carroll's goat cheddar recipe inconsistent and disappointing?

I have no idea. It's definitely not detailed. A great cheesemaker could make it useful, but then again a great cheesemaker would most likely not use it as is.

What do you buy to test the pH?

I have multiple meters and probes in my lab.

[smoky mountain girl]

WOW!    Thank you so very much!  I am going to buy a pH meter and as soon as I get it, use this recipe!  I can't possibly convey my gratitude for your help.  I printed it and am going to read it to familiarize myself with it and get ready. I have ALOT to learn.  I will let you know how it goes. I appreciate you offering to answer any questions. Thanks again!  Oh, I thought the name of the cheese had a very nice ring to it.

[smoky mountain girl]

Hello and good afternoon.
We laid out of church today and unfortunately, for you, I'm back and only have about 100 questions.  Bare in mind I've only made Feta (Fias Co Farm recipe) and one cheddar I screwed up because I forgot the salt and turned into some kind of feta.  The recipe you gave me looks great and I'm really excited about it.  I understand alot of it and am researching what I don't.  I hope it isn't beyond me, equipment and knowledge wise.  Some of these questions are really going to show my ignorance, I hope I don't push you over the edge, but here goes:

what does "PF of .75" mean?

Am I supposed to measure an inoculation rate of 1.5% or do I just use "x" amount of teaspoons of the 1.5% Danisco RA?

that leads me to... under cultures do I choose one of the three options you listed or use both Danisco RA and FLAV?

and I couldn't find Danisco RA and FLAV at the dairy connection, I guess I don't know how to read the labels correctly. I have Danisco Choozit MM100 LYO 50 DCU.

For 3-4 gal of milk how much culture do I use?

ok, for rennet I have Marschall M 50 Coagulant tablets, can I just use 1/4 tablet as usual?

should I add any lipase?

I don't anything about checking moisture or changing the stir schedule.  Can you recommend a source to teach me how to do this?

When talking about pH you said "If using TA, you should be around .23"  What does that mean?

"drain the whey and fuse the curd so the whey pH is not below 6.05"  I'm assuming I should drain it in cheese cloth and that fuses the curd back together and the pH of the whey has dropped to 6.05 but not below?
 
Can I use pH strips, if "no" then, is there an inexpensive meter you can recommend? The one at dairy connection is $114.  I'm thinking it may be better to buy it but good grief...

How can I measure salt content of 1.8%?  Can I just use, say, 2T of salt?

Finally, I have the "sturdy press" built by a gentleman on this forum.  Maybe you are familiar with it and its calculator.  My mold has about 53 sq in surface area and if I enter 5 lbs in the "pressure" box of the cal.  it tells me to use 55 cups of water on the lever.  Could that be right? (maybe I should ask Mr. Samuelson about this)

Should I increase pressure a few times and flip the cheese in the mold?

Finally, really, the only "cave" I have is my basement.  Will that be good enough to age cheese?  It is cool and dampish but I dont know the exact temp or humidity. 

I hope I've not made you sorry for helping me.  Thank you so much!

[linuxboy]

what does "PF of .75" mean?

Milk protein to fat ratio. Meaning Nubian milk is richer than other breeds, so you have to adjust the make a little to hit the right moisture targets. Typically, don't need to stir as much, and can use normal 3/8" -1/2" curds.

Am I supposed to measure an inoculation rate of 1.5% or do I just use "x" amount of teaspoons of the 1.5% Danisco RA?

Measure. In Danisco's world, this is 8-10 DCU per 1,000 liters, IIRC. Search the forum for "bulk equivalent". I have posted tables before.

that leads me to... under cultures do I choose one of the three options you listed or use both Danisco RA and FLAV?

You must have RA. FLAV is to add flavor, texture, and aroma. It gives you a bit more sharpness and savoryness.

and I couldn't find Danisco RA and FLAV at the dairy connection,

Call the,, or order from somewhere else.

I guess I don't know how to read the labels correctly. I have Danisco Choozit MM100 LYO 50 DCU.

You can use MM, the cheddar will be alright. Not amazing, but decent.

For 3-4 gal of milk how much culture do I use?

Easiest for you is likely teaspoon type measures, right? a Little less than 1 teaspoon, then.

ok, for rennet I have Marschall M 50 Coagulant tablets, can I just use 1/4 tablet as usual?

What is your time to flocculation with that amount? You must hit a time to floc of 10-12 mins.

should I add any lipase?

No.

I don't anything about checking moisture or changing the stir schedule.  Can you recommend a source to teach me how to do this?

It's a hand-on, feeling, experienced-based kind of thing. You clump the curds into a ball and check if they are done or not. If you don't know, don't worry about it. Take notes during the make for how the curds felt, and then when you cut into the cheese to eat it, go back to compare how the moisture is based on how the curds felt.

When talking about pH you said "If using TA, you should be around .23"  What does that mean?

If you are titrating and not using a pH, probe, the TA is .23.

I should drain it in cheese cloth and that fuses the curd back together and the pH of the whey has dropped to 6.05 but not below?

When the curds meld initially into the first loose slab, the pH should be below 6.05. I'm trying to give exact guidance because in cheddar, often you start draining the pH, and by the time you finish and pack the curd, the pH has dropped another .1-.2. So This is your quality control point so you can tweak the recipe.

Can I use pH strips, if "no" then, is there an inexpensive meter you can recommend? The one at dairy connection is $114.  I'm thinking it may be better to buy it but good grief...

You can, if you can read them well. The thing about pH is that it is not an absolute. The best way to use pH is to understand what it really means, and to use the change is pH between steps as a way to make decisions. It's not just pH. It's pH, moisture, temperature, agitation, milk PF, etc.

How can I measure salt content of 1.8%?  Can I just use, say, 2T of salt?

You measure the weight of the cheese. Then you figure out the amount. Then you figure out the anticipated loss. Say, you need 2.1% for a final salt content of 1.8%. So you add that, in 2-3 saltings with a rest period of 2-5 mins between saltings while you turn over the curd. In a vat, it all makes sense. One guy salts, another guy turns with a shovel/pitchfork. By the time you finish one salting, you go back and start the other because it takes 5 mins to finish.

Maybe you are familiar with it and its calculator.

Use as much pressure as sanely possible. You can use 60 PSI on cheddar if you want. 30-40 is common commercially. This is not an exact calculation. More of a "crank it up"

Should I increase pressure a few times and flip the cheese in the mold?

Yes, especially at first. Cloth will stick. Redress a few times.

Finally, really, the only "cave" I have is my basement.  Will that be good enough to age cheese?  It is cool and dampish but I dont know the exact temp or humidity.

I have no idea. Does it fit the parameters I specified? 45F and 85-90% RH? If not, you can use it, but aging will be different. Cheddar is best when done low and slow.