Author Topic: Swiss Wheel From The Great Milk Experiment Curd  (Read 5584 times)

Offline Likesspace

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Re: Swiss Wheel From The Great Milk Experiment Curd
« Reply #30 on: March 26, 2009, 08:42:04 PM »
Linuxboy...thanks for the information!
What you describe is pretty much exactly what I had in mind, yet I have made a HDPE "follower" that is as large as my cheese vat.
I plan on letting the curd settle.....pour off most of the whey (leaving approximately 2" over the curd mass), and then placing the follower on top of the mass and pressing with approx. 8 - 10 lbs. of pressure for 10 minutes.
I did perforate the follower to allow the whey a route of escape so that the follower doesn't float.
Also, I have considered putting the curd into a cheesecloth .....putting the cheesecloth into my actual pressing mold and then submerging the entire set up into the whey and then pressing with my follower.
I figure that way, the curd mass will not be too large for my 7.5" mold since it will already be in the mold.
I honestly think I'll try this method on the batch I make this weekend and see how it works out.
I realize that the curd will still contain quite a lot of whey once I begin the actual pressing but if I slowly apply the pressing weight, that should allow this excess whey to expel.
Again, thanks so much for the information you've given me. It will be a great help.

Dave


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Offline eVenom

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Re: Swiss Wheel From The Great Milk Experiment Curd
« Reply #31 on: April 08, 2009, 11:17:23 AM »
I'll let everyone know how this turns out (knowing me, probably sooner than later).
Regardless, this one is going at least another two months before it crack it open.
I WILL see what a decently aged Swiss is supposed to taste like this time.
(step away from the cheese......remain calm......aged cheese is your friend).

Dave


Well It's been two months already since that post...

so do you have any updates   I would really like to see the outcome of this!!
eVenom

Offline Likesspace

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Re: Swiss Wheel From The Great Milk Experiment Curd
« Reply #32 on: April 08, 2009, 09:12:51 PM »
eVenom....
This cheese tasted great...had a perfect swiss texture and was still a failure from my standpoint.
The eyes I formed were small an numerous. Not at all what a true swiss should be.
As we speak I have yet another swiss aging on the kitchen counter and this time I did press the curd under the whey. I have high hopes for this one, but this particular variety of cheese has dashed my hopes more times than I can count.
I have officially dubbed swiss as the most difficult cheese to do and do right.
I'm sure that cheddar makers and Stilton makers feel the same about their varieties, but honestly....this cheese has SO many variables that contribute to eye formation....sheesh.
The cheese that's sweating now, is by far the most elastic I've gotten to date and the yield of curd was also far superior to anything I've seen to date.
It has just started to show some swelling in the last day or two, so I'm hoping.....
Again, I'll give an update on this latest attempt once I know something. Especially if it's a success. :-)
In short, if you are looking for a great tasting cheese with a very nice texture, this swiss recipe is hard to beat. I personally won't consider it a success until all aspects of this cheese are met.
Thanks for asking about it.

Dave

Offline eVenom

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Re: Swiss Wheel From The Great Milk Experiment Curd
« Reply #33 on: April 08, 2009, 09:58:55 PM »
Maybe it's too much to ask... but would you share your recipe with us!  I would really appreciated. That bloating cheese looks so cool

do you have pictures of the your so called "failure"

remember in the end its all about taste!
eVenom

Offline Rich

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Re: Swiss Wheel From The Great Milk Experiment Curd
« Reply #34 on: April 09, 2009, 04:07:31 AM »
Dave,
I have a possible solution to your small eye problem.  I think you've been using the 97 lb weakling proprionic.  You need to find some of the brawny bully type.  But seriously, I feel for you on this one.  At least you're getting the taste and texture you want.  In the immortal words of Mick Jagger, "You can't always get what you want."  My sympathies are largely because of a very flat Emmantel in my cave.  We're all hoping your persistence pays off, and your sanity holds out.

My question regarding the previous posts in this thread is:  how do you get your curd from the pot to the mold without breaking it up?  As for me, my pot is 12" across and my mold is only 6".  If I use a 6" pot, its going to be one tall puppy!


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Offline Likesspace

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Re: Swiss Wheel From The Great Milk Experiment Curd
« Reply #35 on: April 09, 2009, 10:17:00 AM »
eVenom...
Ask and you shall receive.

Swiss Cheese

Things you will need:

1 gallon of whole milk, 1/2 packet of direct-set thermophilic starter or 2 ounces of prepared thermophilic starter, 1/2 teaspoon of propionic shermanii powder, 1/4 teaspoon of liquid rennet or a 1/4 renbet tablet, 1 pound of cheese salt, for brine, plus a pinch of cheese salt, 1/2 gallon of cold water, for brine. curd knife, stainless steel whisk, cheesecloth. ladle

 

Step1 Heat the milk to 90 degrees Fahrenheit. Add the starter and mix well.

Step2 Remove 1/4 cup of milk from the pot and add the propionic shermanii to it. Mix thoroughly to dissolve the powder. Add the mixture to the milk and stir. Cover and allow the milk to ripen for approximately 10 minutes.

Step3 Make sure that the milk’s temperature ALWAYS remains at 90 degrees. Add the diluted rennet and stir gently with an up-and-down motion for approximately 1 minute. If you are wanting to use farm fresh cow’s milk, top stir for several minutes longer. Cover and let the milk set at 90 degrees for approximately 30 miutes.

Step4 Using a curd knife and a stainless-steel whisk, cut the curd into 1/4 inch cubes.

Step5 Keeping the curd temperatures at 90 degrees, gently stir the curds for approximately 40 minutes. This is called fore-working and helps expel whey from the curds before they are heated.
Step6 Heat the curds by one degree every minute until the temperature is 120 degrees Fahrenheit. This will take approximately 30 minutes. Maintain the temperature at 120 degrees Fahrenheit for another 30 minutes, stirring often. The curds must be cooked until they reach a stage called the “proper break.” To test for this, wad together a handful of curds and rub it gently between your palms. It the ball readily breaks apart into individual particles, the curds are sufficiently cooked. If they are not sufficiently cooked, they will be too soft to hold the cheese together. Let the curds set for approximately 5 minutes.

Step7 Pour off the whey and reserve it for other recipes.

Step8 Line a 1 pound mold with cheesecloth and place it in the sink or over a large pot. Quickly ladle the curds into the mold. You do not want the curds to cool. Press at 8-10 pounds of pressure for approximately 15 minutes.

Step9 Remove the cheese from the mold and gently peel away the cheesecloth. Turn over the cheese, re-dress it, and press at 14 pounds of pressure for 30 minutes.
Step10 Repeat the process but press at the same pressure of 14 pounds for 2 hours.

Step11 Repeat the process but press at 15 pounds of pressure for 12 hours.

Step12 Make a saturated brine bath by combining the salt and water in a noncorrosive pot; stir well. Remove the cheese from the mold, peel away the cheesecloth, and soak the cheese in the brine. Sprinkle the remaining pinch of salt on the surface of the floating cheese. Refrigerate the brine and let the cheese soak for 12 hours.

Step13 Remove the cheese from the brine and pat dry. You can reserve the brine for other recipe uses if you so desire. Place the cheese on a clean cheese board and store between 50 to 55 degrees Fahrenheit and at 85 percent humidity. Turn the cheese daily for one week, wiping it with a clean cheesecloth dampened in salt water. Do not wet the cheese.

Step14 Place the cheese in a warm, humid room, such as the kitchen, with the temperature between 68 and 74 degrees fahrenheit. Turn it daily and wipe it with a cheesecloth dampened in salt water. Do not wet the surface of the cheese. Let the cheese set for 2-3 weeks, until eye formation is noticeable. The cheese will swell somewhat and become slightly rounded.

Step15 Age the cheese at 45 degrees Fahrenheit. and at 80 percent humidity for at least 3 months. Turn the cheese several times a week. Remove any surface mold with cheesecloth dampened in salt water. A reddish coloration on the surface of the cheese is normal and should not be removed.This recipe will make about 1 pound of cheese. If you want an additional pound, just double the recipe.

This is by far the best swiss recipe I've found. Even before I had a Ph meter, the cheese would turn out tasty just by following the recipe exactly.
Good luck if you give this one a try and please let me know if you find a definitive answer to the eye issue.

Dave

Offline Likesspace

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Re: Swiss Wheel From The Great Milk Experiment Curd
« Reply #36 on: April 09, 2009, 10:22:14 AM »
Hey Rich, Glad to see you posing here!

As for the process of pressing under whey.
Well I have no idea if this is the correct way of doing it, but here's my procedure.

At the end of the cook I drain the curds into a draining bag.
I then tie the top of the bag and put it back into the whey.
I then use the HDPE follower I made (same diameter as the pot, and perforated on the top) to press the curd bag for approx. 15 minutes.
At that point, I realized that the curd mass was STILL too big to fit into my mold so I broke it up into large chunks and placed it in my cheesecloth lined mold.
At that point, I submerged the entire mold back into the whey and repeated the pressing process.
Once I too the mold out of the whey the curd mass was very well consolidated and there was very little whey that came out while pressing.
As I said, I don't know that this is right but the wheel really came out well.
If it continues to swell over the next week or so, I'll snap a pic and put it on here and the other forum.
The wheel is so elastic it feels "soft" so I do have some hopes for something good to come from this one.
Pressing under the whey wasn't nearly as big of a challenge as I had envisioned yet at the same time I don't know if this procedure will give the results I'm after.
Only time will tell. :-)

Dave

Offline Old Man Cheese

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Re: Swiss Wheel From The Great Milk Experiment Curd
« Reply #37 on: June 07, 2009, 01:58:08 AM »
Hi, so how's the latest baby developing?

Offline Likesspace

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Re: Swiss Wheel From The Great Milk Experiment Curd
« Reply #38 on: October 11, 2009, 07:42:31 PM »
Hey guys,
I know it's been a long time coming, but here's a final update on this cheese...
In short, it sucked.
It did not swell like I had hoped and the taste was.....I don't know, "off".
My wife did really like both the taste and the texture but I was not happy with it (especially since I saw the exact same small, numerous eyes that I"ve gotten used to seeing).
I ended up trashing the cheese that my wife didn't eat because I simply wouldn't touch it. It is the first swiss cheese that I've made that I consider a total failure.
But, the good news is that it's now cheese making time again!
I am going to brush up on my skills by making a few Romano, cheddar and Stilton cheeses and then it's on to the swiss.
Of course I'll also probably throw in a batch or two of Camembert and I might even get up enough nerve to try a Cambozola this year.

Dave

Offline DeejayDebi

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Re: Swiss Wheel From The Great Milk Experiment Curd
« Reply #39 on: October 18, 2009, 08:20:55 PM »
Sorry to hear abot your disappointment in this last cheese. I have read somewhere that we can't make big holes here due to size and agricultural differences.

I am curious - If the the size cheese is an issue I would suspect thicker cheese would be better than larger diameter. Maybe that would help simulate bigger cheese?


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Offline Likesspace

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Re: Swiss Wheel From The Great Milk Experiment Curd
« Reply #40 on: October 19, 2009, 09:22:10 PM »
Debi...
I've also thought about the wheel size but I really don't see that as being relative.
If large eyes can be formed in a 200 lb. wheel then they should be able to be formed in a 5 lb. wheel.
I'm sure that it has to do with getting a totally closed curd which requires proper pressing under the whey, but without a sealed system of draining the whey I don't really know how this would be possible.
From what I've read, professionals use a siphon system where absolutely NO air is introduced into the curd. I don't have that available but I'm going to continue trying. I just ordered a new packet of p. shermanii so we'll see how it goes this year. Before evening considering another swiss make I'm going to give this a lot of thought.
I don't care if I eventually turn out a cheddar, stilton and cambozola that are better than anything that can be bought......without nailing the swiss I'll never consider myself a real cheese maker. Sometimes I really hate this perfectionist streak I have in me.
That just brought back a memory....
Some 20 years ago I once lectured my wife about how I am a perfectionist and she is not. Her response was: "That's why I married you and you married me."  Yeah, that pretty much put me in my place. :)

Dave