Author Topic: Aged Lactic Goat Cheeses - Raw vs Pasteurised Milk  (Read 1619 times)

Offline TAMARA

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Aged Lactic Goat Cheeses - Raw vs Pasteurised Milk
« on: September 08, 2011, 12:12:51 AM »
Hi all cheesemakers,

I finally got my hands on 20lt of raw goat milk - straight from the goats!

I decided to pasteurise half the milk and then make exactly the same cheeses with both batches, to get an understanding of differences in curd, taste, volume and final cheese.

All was going well and I had my separate  trays of lactic curd, chevrotin, pyraminds and st. maure style all draining, then... disaster struck! I got side tracked the next morning when turning/brining/salting and realised that I had mixed up all the raw and pasteurised cheeses and visually, there was no way to tell them apart.

I gave up trying and simply matured the cheeses according to their style and now, most of them are wrapped and having done a tasting today, the only discernable difference i can see is that some of the various goat cheeses have a very different considency to others.

For example, with the little chevrotins, about half are lovely and plump with a little geo ripple on the surface of the white mould but the other half spread more during aging (think a small brie shape) and on tasting today, the cheese was very soft... so much so that as soon as it was cut, the cheese paste was literallly liquid and just ran out, whereas the other cheeses which look better, also have a firmer paste that can be cut.

Similar for the St. Maure. They both look good but one is distinctly firmer than the other (one was raw, one pasteurised but i don't know which is which).

I have noticed a stronger flavour in the runnier cheeses.

So... does anyone know if it would be the raw milk that contributes to a much runnier texture (almost as thought it has been aged too long - they are only 2 weeks old but look and taste as if they are at the very end of their best eating time).

I would think (from my limited experience) that the raw milk cheese would age faster and be more susceptible to other conditions whereas the pasteurised cheese might lack some flavour but would be more stable and with a more reliable result.

Can anyone please assist with advice in this area....

Thanks so much,,

TAMARA


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Offline Saltysteele

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Re: Aged Lactic Goat Cheeses - Raw vs Pasteurised Milk
« Reply #1 on: September 08, 2011, 01:47:33 AM »
i'm a beginner, so don't put full stock into what i say.  :)
i would guess the firmer cheese would be the cheese with the raw milk.  this is just based on making cheese from cow milk from the store, and the difference in the curd strength in cheese made from raw goat milk.  just seems like the pasteurized cheese would not have as strong/firm of curd, from my limited experience.


using raw milk and comparing it to using the store's pasteurized and homogenized milk was like night and day.  with the store milk i had to add this and do that.  with the raw milk, it was like there was no effort involved.  i wasted gallons and gallons of store milk trying to get a good curd.  with the raw milk, i don't know if i could have messed it up  :P

Offline TAMARA

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Re: Aged Lactic Goat Cheeses - Raw vs Pasteurised Milk
« Reply #2 on: September 08, 2011, 06:56:17 AM »
Thanks Saltysteele for your advice.

I agree that raw milk (perhaps particularly, farm fresh milk) provides an amazing set in the curds - much stronger and more stable than curds made with supermarket milk, however, my question relates NOT to the curd but to the finished cheeses after aging.

At the curd stage, there is no question that the the fresh farm milk and definately the raw milk set beautifully.

However now, it appears as though the raw milk cheeses might have aged too fast and become to runny and with a stronger flavour - than the identical cheese made with the pasteurized milk.

Interesting...

I would love any advice from cheesemakers who might have noticed this difference between cheese made with raw milk versus pasteurised.

Thanks,

TAMARA

Offline John (CH)

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Re: Aged Lactic Goat Cheeses - Raw vs Pasteurised Milk
« Reply #3 on: September 08, 2011, 05:58:04 PM »
Tamara, I haven't made cheese with raw milk.

As Saltysteele says, all other things being equal, you should get a stronger rennet curd coagulation with raw vs pasteurized milk.

However I believe the cheeses you made with this split batch ("lactic curd Chevrotin, Pyramids and St. Maure") are mostly lactic acid coagulated curd cheeses, so I assume you used only a very small amount of rennet, and had to wait overnight for lactic acid coagulation?

I remember a couple of posts from linuxboy I think that conversely to rennet coagulated curds, lactic acid actually get a better coagulation from pasteurized than from raw milk. Here's one post, sorry but can't find the other places he's mentioned it.

On your question that after some aging, which batch is runnier than the other, I don't know (but I'd guess the pasteurized), sorry, but it is a good question!

Offline linuxboy

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Re: Aged Lactic Goat Cheeses - Raw vs Pasteurised Milk
« Reply #4 on: September 08, 2011, 06:31:18 PM »
Tamara, it is the control of acidity, moisture, and temperature in lactic and semi lactic cheeses that contributes to paste and texture differences. Raw vs pasteurized affects this insofar as raw milk has more bacteria, which may acidify the milk faster. So if you are following time-based recipes, the results will differ.

By themselves, the two factors of properly pasteurized or raw milk will not give you different results in the cheese, except maybe in flavor and aroma nuances due to retained enzymes in the raw milk, as well as natural ambient bacteria. In other words, with good milk, it is possible to achieve the vast range of texture and moisture differences regardless of pasteurization.

John, lactic curds set better when the caseins adsorb whey proteins, but this shouldn't affect functional properties for lactics and semi-lactics.
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Offline TAMARA

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Re: Aged Lactic Goat Cheeses - Raw vs Pasteurised Milk
« Reply #5 on: September 10, 2011, 06:54:59 AM »
Thanks Linuxboy,

Your comments raise an interesting question - given that I made the cheeses on the same day with the same milk (half pasterurised, half raw), they were matured in the same wine fridge on the same trays etc etc, you would surely think that all the factors you mentioned - control of acidity, moisture, and temperature etc. were the same for all cheeses, which leaves me wondering why approx half of each batch was really runny and soft and the other half of each batch was so much firmer - as it should have been.

I suppose I may never know the answer but I really just wanted to know whether it was thought that raw milk cheese acidifies faster with its extra bacteria etc. It seems you think this is a possibilty.

I had made these cheeses before with store bought goat milk and had very good eating cheeses (though the curds in the curds in the inital stage were not as firm or quick to set as the farm milk). The setting results of the farm milk in both batches (raw and pasteurized) were amazing - strong curd and quick set (lactic curd was set in 2 hours but I did leave it overnight anyway). It is the differences in the texture of the finished cheese that puzzles me.

Happy cheesemaking!

TAMARA

Offline linuxboy

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Re: Aged Lactic Goat Cheeses - Raw vs Pasteurised Milk
« Reply #6 on: September 10, 2011, 07:05:21 AM »
Quote
you would surely think that all the factors you mentioned - control of acidity, moisture, and temperature etc. were the same for all cheeses
But it begins in the vat. The moment you pour milk in, all those variables enter into play. So for example, was your inoculation and culturing temp exactly the same? Did you add rennet at exactly the same time, meaning same pH levels? Did they set for the same period? Did you scoop the curds to be the same size? How about, hanging/molding, was it all identical in terms of temp time, etc?

See where I'm getting at? Slight variations make for a big difference with lactics and semi-lactics. Runniness is due to moisture level in curd and strength of enzymes when the milk is the same and the aging conditions and salt are the same. So if one is more runny, likely, had more moisture.

Quote
raw milk cheese acidifies faster with its extra bacteria etc. It seems you think this is a possibilty.
It might. But I have seen some raw milk be more clean than pasteurized milk, meaning it would actually acidify slower. So it depends on the ambient flora.
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Offline Lachevriere

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Re: Aged Lactic Goat Cheeses - Raw vs Pasteurised Milk
« Reply #7 on: September 29, 2012, 10:25:58 AM »
Tamara and All,

I have been aging lactic raw milk cheese since 1999.  I should say that I started the R&D in 1999 because it is VERY HARD to age the raw milk though I now do it successfully.  I think raw milk lactic curd cheese ripens faster, which is why I think the laws on purpose make it more difficult to make a living this way.  The regulation should instead focus on the good practices of the operation, healthy animals, etc.  clean cheese at one day is more likely to be clean with good practices at four weeks, which is often when the lactic style raw milk cheeses want to be ripe and ready.

I think your runnier, stronger flavor cheeses were your raw ones.

The reason I like to work with this difficult process is mainly flavor and texture, and their nutrient-dense and probiotic qualities.

Rona Myers Sullivan