Author Topic: Recipes - Pre-Ripening Before Adding Rennet  (Read 2923 times)

CdnMorganGal

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Recipes - Pre-Ripening Before Adding Rennet
« on: September 14, 2011, 05:34:20 AM »
There are some cheese recipes that really interest me in this book.  However, there are MANY recipes in there where the author does not mention how long the milk needs to ripen.  Does this mean use you own best guess (I dont use a pH meter yet) or that the milk doesnt need time to ripen?  At the moment I am looking at making the Fourme dAmbert . . .  Thank you.

Offline Aris

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Re: Recipes - Pre-Ripening Before Adding Rennet
« Reply #1 on: September 14, 2011, 05:58:59 AM »
Usually it takes 1 hour to ripen any kind of rennet coagulated cheeses.

dthelmers

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Re: Recipes - Pre-Ripening Before Adding Rennet
« Reply #2 on: September 14, 2011, 01:32:59 PM »
Many of the recipes in that book call for no ripening time before adding rennet. Some ripening takes place as the curd is forming, and more as the curd is stirred and heated.

margaretsmall

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Re: Recipes - Pre-Ripening Before Adding Rennet
« Reply #3 on: December 05, 2011, 10:16:34 PM »
Am I right in thinking that Sailor said in another thread that starters which have been cultured don't need a ripening time at all? (ie the ripening time is only needed when you sprinkle the powder over the milk?)

linuxboy

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Re: Recipes - Pre-Ripening Before Adding Rennet
« Reply #4 on: December 05, 2011, 11:11:10 PM »
It depends on your cheese. You have to hit the final calcium target (both bound colloidal and unbound), which you manage through three mechanisms:
- Calcium degradation before gellification through rennet
- Calcium degradation post gel, during the set time and scald/stir, and
- Calcium degradation post whey drain, before brining, as the acid develops

Each of these does different things, and has to do with the rate of degradation. For example, with milk before it forms a curd, the calcium in the micelles is readily broken down, because milk is colloidal and micelles can move about. After gellification, it's essentially up to the available acid, and with a moist curd, there's still decent acid movement. When you fuse, the curd is more dry, so there's not too much that the acid can break down, and the acidity doesn't do as much.

You can use these three measures as a type of dial to create specific families of cheese. The dials are almost identical for each family, because the acidity falls within a range. And the subtle differences make for the variances. For example, in the alpine/gruyere family, to make an alpkase, you would add rennet at around 6.55, and for a comte, it would be 6.5-6.6. Typically, you also match calcium with moisture level and maturation target, because high calcium cheeses need more time for flavor development. You wouldn't make a high calcium, very moist cheese that ages in 2 months, for example (actually you could, but with adjuncts, have to engineer the make)

Hope that helps. In terms of the starter, generally, yes, the wait time is very short when using bulk starter with continental and yellow cheeses. But not always, not for all cheeses.

Sailor Con Queso

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Re: Recipes - Pre-Ripening Before Adding Rennet
« Reply #5 on: December 06, 2011, 12:18:35 AM »
Just for clarity (not that it really matters), but WHAT book are you talking about?

Another technique (besides doing Mother Cultures) is to pre-ripen the powdered culture in a small container of milk that is warmed to the appropriate starter temp. For example, just take 1 cup of milk in a sanitized cup, warm to 86F (or whatever) and add your culture. If you do this while your bigger batch of milk is heating up, it can save you a lot of time. When your main batch of milk gets to starter temp, just add the pre-ripened culture. Sort of like doing a mini mother culture.

dthelmers

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Re: Recipes - Pre-Ripening Before Adding Rennet
« Reply #6 on: December 06, 2011, 01:19:33 AM »
I think I was assuming 200 Easy Home Made Cheese recipes.

margaretsmall

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Re: Recipes - Pre-Ripening Before Adding Rennet
« Reply #7 on: December 06, 2011, 05:13:05 AM »
Yes, it is the 200 easy cheeses book. The thread was moved by the forum boss and appeared among the 'unread posts' today where it caught my eye (since I was already puzzling about it). Along the way the header seems to have morphed. Thanks Linux, food for thought there. I'll go and read the chemistry section of Kindstedt again - chemistry wasn't my strong point at school, and that was back in the ice ages. If only they had covered the chemistry of cheesemaking. The cheesemaking class I took ignored the chemistry of it all entirely, which I found frustrating. I want to know why, as well as how. Helps when the 'how' takes you in an unexpected direction.