Author Topic: Eek!! Too much geo!  (Read 1849 times)

george

  • Guest
Eek!! Too much geo!
« on: November 02, 2011, 02:08:37 PM »
Yesterday I made Cams #13, and it's the first time I've actually gotten around to (or remembered to) adding some geo to the mix.  Unfortunately I did this before I read the directions on the package, so I put in WAY too much.  For 2 gallons raw Jersey milk (about 3-4 days out of the cow), I used 1/16th tsp PC and 1/32nd tsp Geo.  From the looks of it, I should have used something more along the lines of 1/64th tsp or even way less.  *sigh*

What effect is this going to have on these cams?

If the effect might be something icky, is there anything I can do to mitigate it during the aging period? 

They're in the final drain stage now, will get salted and into ripening container around 3:00 PM EST today.

linuxboy

  • Guest
Re: Eek!! Too much geo!
« Reply #1 on: November 02, 2011, 02:33:16 PM »
Age it cold, 45-48F to slow down the geo. You will get a slower bloom, but the rate of proteolysis is easier to control.

anutcanfly

  • Guest
Re: Eek!! Too much geo!
« Reply #2 on: November 02, 2011, 04:39:11 PM »
Don't worry!  I've run a lot a bloomy cheeses with far more than needed (I also neglected to reread the package) as most recipes call for more than should be needed.  So far every thing's been good. The rind is thicker, but since I love the rind it's not an unhappy problem!  Also, they have only been taking 3 weeks to mature instead of four, but that might be due to other factors... not sure.   The last recipe (cambozola) I ran called for 1/8 tsp PC for one gallon and it still came out fine...  I premix my PC and Geo at a 5:1 ratio to make it easier to measure when I need it. 

There is a lot of confusion around how much of mold, culture or rennet to use.  The last bottle of rennet I ordered said 1/2 tsp per 2 gallons on the bottle, the description in the online store said 1/4 tsp per gallon and when I emailed to question the discrepancy, he emailed back and said oops... that should have said 1/8 tsp per 2 gallons!  ::)  I ended up running gallon batches of camembert while I sorted it out.  It turned out to really be triple strength and I only need 17 drops to set 4 gallons of goat milk!  The cultures I use all say 1/4 tsp per 4 gallons, but my recipes all call for 1/2 tsp. 

This hobby has quite a long learning curve!  :)

linuxboy

  • Guest
Re: Eek!! Too much geo!
« Reply #3 on: November 02, 2011, 04:52:27 PM »
Quote
I premix my PC and Geo at a 5:1 ratio
Too much PC is OK, will come in faster and thicker. But too much Geo is problematic. It can cause slip skin rapidly because the surface rate of proteolysis may be too rapid and unbalanced. Excess geo is a classic cause of slipskin.

Quote
There is a lot of confusion around how much of mold, culture or rennet to use. 
I don't know... I think we've done a decent job on the forum covering the exact amounts appropriate. We've talked about flocculation, about time to floc for specific cheese styles, about the bulk equivalency and how it translates to DVI and pellet cultures, and about inoculation rates for specific cheese families. Elsewhere, though, most vendors provide blanket guidance and recommendations.

iratherfly

  • Guest
Re: Eek!! Too much geo!
« Reply #4 on: November 02, 2011, 05:36:21 PM »
1/32 tsp for 2 gallon is not a problem. You can keep it under control even at 1/8 tsp or more. In my opinion you can begin aging it normally at 52°F-54°F but just be vigilant; only if it blooms too much / too fast, move it to colder temp and reduce moisture slightly.  Pav had suggested 45°F-48°F, that's a perfect range for low temp aging.

You just want the geo to bloom enough to de-acidify the surface and usher in the PC. You don't want it to flourish so much that it begins early proteolysis just under the rind and disturbs the PC growth. The idea is to let it proteolyze slowly and more evenly throughout the cheese while the PC is already blooming. You will be fine. I usually use more than that and I am always fine.

These measurements are only rough guidelines anyway and proportionally you need a little more culture to jump start activity in 1-2 gallons (Which is why for example a single gallon needs 1/8 of starter culture and 4 gallons also need acidified with 1/8 tsp total culture, which is 1/32 tsp starter culture per gallon - 1/4 the dosage used for a single gallon. You raise it up more when you go to 5-10 gallon range). I only do accurate milligram DCU calculations for batches of over 10-12 gallons. That's where the balance difference really shows up on the cheese (and that's also where you will save lots of cultures and $$$ by using a milligram scale instead of measuring spoons.) It's a little like baking at home, where for a loaf of bread of cake you will still be fine with cup/spoon measurements, but moving to large batches (or taking your baking to the next level) you would always measure everything by weight.

In short, don't worry about it, your cheese is fine!

anutcanfly

  • Guest
Re: Eek!! Too much geo!
« Reply #5 on: November 02, 2011, 07:28:57 PM »
I wasn't referring to the forum as being confused/confusing linuxboy.   :)  It's the constant discrepancies between recipes, suppliers  and manufacturers guidelines...  I was struggling with this long before I knew about this forum!  This forum has been a godsend!

linuxboy

  • Guest
Re: Eek!! Too much geo!
« Reply #6 on: November 02, 2011, 07:33:51 PM »
hehe. Oh I see :). I'm with you, it's a confusing world out there. *grandpa Simpson* and there are wolves after me :P

Tomer1

  • Guest
Re: Eek!! Too much geo!
« Reply #7 on: November 02, 2011, 08:33:15 PM »
I wonder if many PC mixes already contain some amount of geo since it seems the two almost aways go hand in hand in bloomy rinds.

linuxboy

  • Guest
Re: Eek!! Too much geo!
« Reply #8 on: November 02, 2011, 09:08:59 PM »
none of them do. They are all pure culture until you get to custom rind blends, which vary greatly.

george

  • Guest
Re: Eek!! Too much geo!
« Reply #9 on: November 03, 2011, 10:30:14 AM »
Hmmmmm ... this should be interesting, then.  I only have the one cave (full-size fridge, actually) and I have a bunch of other things in there aging to hopefully be ready for various holidays - I'm too chicken to lower the temp of the whole thing just for this batch.  Right now it's running more or less 53F.  I could reduce it some, but then I'd still be afraid of my holiday cheeses taking too long.  Majority rules!!

I think I'll just hold out and see what happens (another problematical is that these things are REALLY thick, hopefully they'll continue draining more and reduce some).   First sign of slip skin and I'll relegate them to the regular fridge - even if that DOES mean it'll take months for them to ripen.   ;) 

That does explain, however, why I've never had any slip skin problems with cams before - I didn't realize the geo could be responsible for most of that effect.  Thanks for that - and I'll be MUCH more careful in the future.   

As always, you folks are a treasure trove of help and inspiration.  I cannot thank you enough.

Melbourne Cheese

  • Guest
Re: Eek!! Too much geo!
« Reply #10 on: November 03, 2011, 11:51:45 AM »
I have to ask, what is skin slip?

Tomer1

  • Guest
Re: Eek!! Too much geo!
« Reply #11 on: November 03, 2011, 02:03:08 PM »
Its a condition in bloomy cheeses caused by uneven ripening where the rind just seperates from the paste.
http://cheeseforum.org/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=7255.0;attach=12608;image


Melbourne Cheese

  • Guest
Re: Eek!! Too much geo!
« Reply #12 on: November 04, 2011, 07:08:51 AM »
Thanks for that.  I had a feeling is was something like that.