Author Topic: Lactic blue cheeses,does such a thing exist?  (Read 4037 times)

Offline iratherfly

  • Old Cheese
  • *****
  • Location: The Cheese Caves underneath Manhattan; New York City NY
  • Posts: 1,913
  • Cheeses: 109
  • Cheese, milk's leap toward immortality (Clifton F)
Re: Lactic blue cheeses,does such a thing exist?
« Reply #30 on: December 10, 2011, 02:59:46 AM »
Sorry to hear that. Share the recipe. Did you use yeast? What temperature did you age it at and for how long?  You just need to work with very dry curd on these (pre drain it a lot) and use yeast to buildup gas as well as deacidify the surface of the cheese and the surface of the eyes so that blue can grow inside the eyes. Mould it cool so that it doesn't know all the way. Age it in cooler temperature than you are used to. The blue thrives in cold but the geo doesn't and I suspect it's geo that made it bitter.  (you may have geo in it even if you didn't put any). Wrap the outside and let the blue develop inside instead. Too much blue on the outside in such cheese will give you bitterness and unwanted sharpness


Guests, join the CheeseForum.org community to remove this ad.


Offline JeffHamm

  • Old Cheese
  • *****
  • Location: Auckland, New Zealand
  • Posts: 2,706
  • Cheeses: 163
  • As goes the cheesemaker, so goes the cheese
Re: Lactic blue cheeses,does such a thing exist?
« Reply #31 on: December 10, 2011, 03:44:17 PM »
Hi Tomer1,

A shame.  I've not tried mine yet.  It tasted fine when I pierced for a 2nd time, but there's been lots of time for things to go a stray.

- Jeff
The wise do not always start out on the right path, but they do know when to change course.

Offline JeffHamm

  • Old Cheese
  • *****
  • Location: Auckland, New Zealand
  • Posts: 2,706
  • Cheeses: 163
  • As goes the cheesemaker, so goes the cheese
Re: Lactic blue cheeses,does such a thing exist?
« Reply #32 on: December 11, 2011, 10:35:28 PM »
Hi Tomer1,

Just tried mine today at the age of 30 days and I'm pleased to report it was an outstanding success, so it is possible to get a good blue semi-lactic cheese.  I'm sorry I can't tell you what strain of mould I used, as I harvested it from a bought cheese that I really enjoyed. 

- Jeff
The wise do not always start out on the right path, but they do know when to change course.

Offline iratherfly

  • Old Cheese
  • *****
  • Location: The Cheese Caves underneath Manhattan; New York City NY
  • Posts: 1,913
  • Cheeses: 109
  • Cheese, milk's leap toward immortality (Clifton F)
Re: Lactic blue cheeses,does such a thing exist?
« Reply #33 on: December 12, 2011, 02:39:11 PM »
PHOTOS PLEASE!!!!

Did you end up using any yeasts?

Offline Tomer1

  • Old Cheese
  • *****
  • Location: Israel
  • Posts: 1,669
  • Cheeses: 33
  • Default personal text
Re: Lactic blue cheeses,does such a thing exist?
« Reply #34 on: December 12, 2011, 05:47:49 PM »
     

Added calcium.
Culture - Probat 222+PR (tiny amount) ripened for 3-4 hours before a very small amount of veggi rennet was added ,diluted in distilled water.  Temp 22c

Drained at 4.6 after about 16 hours? perhaps a bit more...

Predrain for 3 hours,salted to 2% by wight and moulded.
Left to ferment (and drain) at 20c for two days to firm up.
Boxed to keep the PR contained and humidity high and went to the cave at 12c flipping daily.
This was 3 or 4 weeks later.

Bitter,very powerful and not very creamy.
Amatuar winemaker,baker, cook and musician
not in any particular order.


Guests, join the CheeseForum.org community to remove this ad.


Offline iratherfly

  • Old Cheese
  • *****
  • Location: The Cheese Caves underneath Manhattan; New York City NY
  • Posts: 1,913
  • Cheeses: 109
  • Cheese, milk's leap toward immortality (Clifton F)
Re: Lactic blue cheeses,does such a thing exist?
« Reply #35 on: December 13, 2011, 11:44:29 PM »
The problem with semi lactics is that they age very fast while blues take their time.  For this you need to begin by modifying your recipe to age slower.

The second issue is that you are not wrapping the outside and all your growth is focused on the outside. It gives you an insane volume of blue and accelerated proteolysis which could cause the cheese to bitter up. You really want this to be a random thing that grows inside the cheese and not all over the outside.  Additionally using veggie rennet may have contributed to the bitterness.

The other thing is, this looks like a tiny cheese. Form factor is important and you need a reasonable volume and seperation between one side of the rind to the opposite side, as well as sufficient surface total to allow the cheese some time before it is covered all over.  Another aspect of that is that if you are using small cheese and drying it rapidly, it will shrink and the rind that was created originally will now be loose and wrinkly - which is what your photo has.

My suggestion is to do a larger volume cheese, use yeast, ultra-dry that curd and then break it down in a bowl. Toss the loose curd with the salt in the bowl and then simply and gently take pieces of curd and move place them in the mould. Don't push them or tighten them, just pile them up so lots of air can be trapped mechanically in between them (you can only do that with curds that has dried enough).

As soon as the blue growth seem to take over the outside, pierce the cheese and cover the rind with foil. Age it in cool temperature. The blue thrives in it and the curd will knot slowly -thus preventing the bitterness.

Offline Tomer1

  • Old Cheese
  • *****
  • Location: Israel
  • Posts: 1,669
  • Cheeses: 33
  • Default personal text
Re: Lactic blue cheeses,does such a thing exist?
« Reply #36 on: December 14, 2011, 02:06:34 AM »
I was aiming for a very high moisture style but apearently its not really possible. With what I expirienced this kind of draining (to make it tossable rather then having cream cheese consistancy) requires 8-10 or so hours or 4-6 with some pressing on the draining bag.
Amatuar winemaker,baker, cook and musician
not in any particular order.

Offline iratherfly

  • Old Cheese
  • *****
  • Location: The Cheese Caves underneath Manhattan; New York City NY
  • Posts: 1,913
  • Cheeses: 109
  • Cheese, milk's leap toward immortality (Clifton F)
Re: Lactic blue cheeses,does such a thing exist?
« Reply #37 on: December 17, 2011, 01:43:30 PM »
You can give it 24 hours. That's what they do with some Crottins. It's interesting because by that time some of the yeast begin to grow and the acidity begins to taper off and reverse. Perfect time for moulding. If it feels very dry, you can skip the 4 days of drying so eventually the moisture will be the same as what you wanted but the development schedule will fit the type of fabrication you are aiming for too

Offline Tomer1

  • Old Cheese
  • *****
  • Location: Israel
  • Posts: 1,669
  • Cheeses: 33
  • Default personal text
Re: Lactic blue cheeses,does such a thing exist?
« Reply #38 on: December 08, 2012, 04:19:11 AM »
I wana re-do my attemp.   is it even possible to get a creamy texture? (as you directed, one needs to dry it up real good so high moisture = creamyness is out of the question, is it not?). 
Will the protolysis of the PR provide any of that creamyness im after? (given that I can get it to work on the paste, not the surface as last time.
Amatuar winemaker,baker, cook and musician
not in any particular order.

Offline linuxboy

  • Old Cheese
  • *****
  • Location: Ukiah, CA
  • Posts: 3,986
  • Cheeses: 199
  • www.wacheese.com
    • Washington Cheese Guild
Re: Lactic blue cheeses,does such a thing exist?
« Reply #39 on: December 08, 2012, 09:12:00 AM »
I should clarify. By drying the curds, I mean you do not want to re-fuse them too early. If you do, they will close off. You want them rough-packed so there are openings. It will still have enough moisture.

Some strains of PR do help with the creaminess.
Taking an extended leave (until 2015) from the forums to build out my farm and dairy. Please e-mail or PM if you need anything.


Guests, join the CheeseForum.org community to remove this ad.


Offline bbracken677

  • Old Cheese
  • *****
  • Location: Dallas, Tx
  • Posts: 1,166
  • Cheeses: 16
  • I love me some cheese!
Re: Lactic blue cheeses,does such a thing exist?
« Reply #40 on: December 08, 2012, 09:14:38 AM »
What strains help with creaminess?

Offline linuxboy

  • Old Cheese
  • *****
  • Location: Ukiah, CA
  • Posts: 3,986
  • Cheeses: 199
  • www.wacheese.com
    • Washington Cheese Guild
Re: Lactic blue cheeses,does such a thing exist?
« Reply #41 on: December 08, 2012, 09:21:39 AM »
Whose products do you typically use/like? Danisco, Hansen, Cargill, someone else?
Taking an extended leave (until 2015) from the forums to build out my farm and dairy. Please e-mail or PM if you need anything.

Offline bbracken677

  • Old Cheese
  • *****
  • Location: Dallas, Tx
  • Posts: 1,166
  • Cheeses: 16
  • I love me some cheese!
Re: Lactic blue cheeses,does such a thing exist?
« Reply #42 on: December 08, 2012, 10:12:02 AM »
danisco

Offline linuxboy

  • Old Cheese
  • *****
  • Location: Ukiah, CA
  • Posts: 3,986
  • Cheeses: 199
  • www.wacheese.com
    • Washington Cheese Guild
Re: Lactic blue cheeses,does such a thing exist?
« Reply #43 on: December 08, 2012, 10:19:33 AM »
Danisco's PV is an aggressive strain. Will also give fast coloration.
Taking an extended leave (until 2015) from the forums to build out my farm and dairy. Please e-mail or PM if you need anything.

Offline bbracken677

  • Old Cheese
  • *****
  • Location: Dallas, Tx
  • Posts: 1,166
  • Cheeses: 16
  • I love me some cheese!
Re: Lactic blue cheeses,does such a thing exist?
« Reply #44 on: December 09, 2012, 09:48:32 AM »
So an aggressive strain will help with creaminess?

If I were to attempt a lactic acid cheese (something with an outcome like Roth Kase's buttermilk blue) would that make a good blue to use?