Brie, Triple Cream - Draining & Structural Integrity Discussion

[Melbourne Cheese]

Hi all,

Need some help.  Made two double cream Bries today.  Followed the recipe very closely but I am worried that something has gone rather wrong.  They are now in the hoops and not draining it seems.  Would it be okay to cut them in half once finished hopping and in effect double the quantity of brie so they mature at the normal rate?  They are very wet and soft.  I am worried they will not firm up.  I have attached a couple of photos to try and show everyone what I mean.  The once closer to the fore had a lot of curds stuck to the plastic matting that was on the bottom of the hoop after a flipping. As you can also see, they will be very very very thick bries if they do not drain.

Would be most appreciated of any assistance.  These cheeses were meant for Christmas and not sure they will be right now.

Cheers

Richard

[boothrf]

Double and triple cream bries are always much harder to drain due to gthe much higher fat content and the softer curd. I would keep them draining for another 24 hours, flipping every 3-4 hours if possible without shattering the cheese. Bries are quite tricky to flip in the larger hoops, helps if you have a follower inside the top when you flip. If they drain adaquately you might find they are thin enough. Otherwise, you can slice them in half after de-hooping, again, as long as they are firm enough.

You will find that they mature quite quickly as they will be much moister, and by the look of them, could be mature before Christmas.

[Leasa]

Hi melbourne cheese.

I had the same thing happen to me this weekend.   Double the time to drain and still huge.
7I've just unmoulded salted drained again and sprayed them with pen. And poped them in the cave ( cheese fridge).  I've called them my monster christmas bries.

Cheers leasa

[Melbourne Cheese]

Thanks for that guys!  Was thinking I might just have to turf and start all over again.  I won't be doing that.  Will let them drain overnight and reassess the situation tomorrow.  Just hope they are happy to sit draining while I am at work. 

Just flipped them again before bed, one flipped alright but still wobbles like jelly, the other stuck again to the matting.  Bob, you say they might be ready before, one was actually for my work's Christmas do on the 16th of Dec so that might just be perfect by then.  Might have to make another one in a week or two for the family Christmas.

[boothrf]

Hi Richard,

My experience is predominately with cams and what I have learnt is that make conditions (such as fat content, stirring time and frequency and draining time) will vary the moisture level of your cheese which in turn will vary the shelf life. Higher moisture = shorter shelf life. I have made cams that have lasted 10 weeks and cams that have lasted 4 weeks!

What you are describing is very moist cheese so you will have to watch it carefully, as I think it will ripen quickly.  As soon as you have good mould growth, get it into your normal fridge at 4C to slow down the ripening. You can put it back into 12C if it needs a little speeding up closer to your "eat" date.

Good luck and keep us posted with photos.

PS If you do end up slicing them, dont forget to spray the cut surface with some more PC or if you brine after slicing, add some PC to the brine.

[Melbourne Cheese]

So, left them draining today all day while at work.  Turned them out and they don't look to bad.  They are still very soft.  Worried that they will be ready too early now as they are still quite moist.  I won't be cutting them in half as they seem to have shrunk some, but still they are LARGE!!

[boothrf]

Yes Richard, they are big cheeses! 

Maybe you needed an extra hoop. What is the weight and how much milk and cream did you use?

Have you salted them yet? That should firm them up nicely. You might find they slump a bit if they are still very soft. As long as they don't split.

Good luck and keep us posted

[Melbourne Cheese]

Hi Bob, I used 16 litres all up. Last Brie I made I used 8 and it turned out more normal size than these two heifers! 

[boothrf]

Hi Richard,

When I make my standard cams, with 8 litres of standard raw milk, I expect a yield of around 1.25kg cheese. My early cheeses ended up high in moisture, and yield increased to 1.5kg or more, but with the subsequent loss of shelf life.

I assume you have added some cream to get a "double cream" brie, so your yield will be higher. So from 16 litres of milk I would estimate you should get nearly 3kg of double cream Brie. By the look of your heifers, you have a bit more than that, and it is almost certainly water! 

I would target around 1kg for my bries, so 3 hoops for 16 litres of milk would suffice, as long as the moisture was normal.

How are they looking now, after being de hopped? Have they slumped at all?

[Melbourne Cheese]

Hi Bob,

They dehooped alright and haven't spread too much which is good but they are so large and cumbersome and also, still moist that they have actually cracked so I am no too happy about that.  The first two photos are the same cheese, just flipped, and the next two are the other one.  The first cheese is better than the second and has not cracked as much.  I just hope that I can salvage them.  It just might mean there will be white mould through the middle and the crack as well as the outside.  Hopefully the taste will still be the same.  Think I might stick to the Camemberts and get some of them made for Christmas next weekend.  I figure I still have enough time.

Cheers

Richard

[Melbourne Cheese]

And this is the other cheese, front and back

[boothrf]

  Hmmmmm.... they do look a bit sad don't they Richard.

I have found Bries quite challenging due to their shape: they are difficult to turn and handle until they really firm up because they are so much wider than cams.

The mould will grow over the cracks, but I think you will find the structural integrity of the cheeses is damaged and they will always be very fragile and prone to break along the cracks. However, I never give up on a cheese unless it has completely fallen apart or turned rotten! With careful turning you should be able to get a reasonable result.

I still think the fundamental problem is high moisture, and if you have added fat (cream) then this just exacerbates the problem. What % fat milk did you use, and how much cream did you add?

[Melbourne Cheese]

Yes Bob, Hilda and Helga do look rather sad.  That is what I have named my heifers!

I used the Paul's unhomoginised milk and 200ml of UHT cream per litre per instructions.  I have made a normal brie before and it turned out magnificently, that is why i though I might try the double cream.  Might just stick to the normal ones in the future.  It is fun to make them and the end result is great.  I get a great sense of satisfaction when i produce cheese that works! 

I will keep you posted though with more pics and the mould starts to grow.

[boothrf]

  Whoa........ 200ml per litre! Did you really add 16 x 200ml = 3.2 litres of cream to your 16 litres of milk?  That would make your milk about 20% fat which would explain the very high yield, poor draining and and very soft cheese. Not sure what the cheese will turn out like with a milk fat that high, but I'm fearful for you! Hilda and Helga might have to end up in the lasagne as a cheese topping!

[Melbourne Cheese]

I was only following recipe!  I used 14 litres of milk so 2.8 litres of cream.  It was UHT cream too.  I must say, I have been using a particular source of recipe and i am not that happy with them.  I would like a new set to follow to see if I can get some better results.  Also ones that are not so confusing.