Author Topic: Chaource . . . Boofer sinks into semi-lactic  (Read 13185 times)

JeffHamm

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Re: Chaource . . . Boofer sinks into semi-lactic
« Reply #15 on: November 29, 2011, 05:06:01 AM »
Hi Boofer,

Sorry to hear about your dad, but glad that he's recovering!  the cheeses look great.  The skin on my semi-lactic got a bit wrinkly, and it was runny under the skin, but it didn't slip off.  I didn't move it into a colder fridge though, whihc would have slowed down the ripening.  Mind you, I wanted it to run. :)

- Jeff

iratherfly

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Re: Chaource . . . Boofer sinks into semi-lactic
« Reply #16 on: November 29, 2011, 05:31:49 AM »
Oh my, I am so sorry to hear about your dad! Wish him the best!

Yes, the pre-drain is important because lactic curd is heavily hydrated and it keeps drying out and shrinking by an additional 30% or so within the first week. If the rind had began to form (which could happen very quickly, twice as fast as a Camembert sometimes) and the paste continues to shrink than you get this thick strong rind which was originally formed tightly over a large curd mass but is now that the curd mass has shrunk it is lose, possibly trapping air pockets or worst - trapping a runny layer.  This isn't a good runny. This is geo with all of its unwanted bitterness. The rind will be tough and plasticy, it could peel or detach easily and feel like a chewing gum in your mouth.

A good pre-drain will prevent it. You can also prevent it by doing the moulding, draining and drying of the cheese in the cave (or fridge). The cool temperature will slow down rind formation so the body gets a chance to shrink before forming a rind.

Alternatively, you may use a strain of PC that is slower and not so aggressive and avoid geo.
Technique wise, you may tap and tighten the cheese in the first few days when you do your daily turns

Offline Boofer

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Re: Chaource . . . Boofer sinks into semi-lactic
« Reply #17 on: November 29, 2011, 07:31:51 AM »
Oh my, I am so sorry to hear about your dad! Wish him the best!

Yes, the pre-drain is important because lactic curd is heavily hydrated and it keeps drying out and shrinking by an additional 30% or so within the first week. If the rind had began to form (which could happen very quickly, twice as fast as a Camembert sometimes) and the paste continues to shrink than you get this thick strong rind which was originally formed tightly over a large curd mass but is now that the curd mass has shrunk it is lose, possibly trapping air pockets or worst - trapping a runny layer.  This isn't a good runny. This is geo with all of its unwanted bitterness. The rind will be tough and plasticy, it could peel or detach easily and feel like a chewing gum in your mouth.

A good pre-drain will prevent it. You can also prevent it by doing the moulding, draining and drying of the cheese in the cave (or fridge). The cool temperature will slow down rind formation so the body gets a chance to shrink before forming a rind.

Alternatively, you may use a strain of PC that is slower and not so aggressive and avoid geo.
Technique wise, you may tap and tighten the cheese in the first few days when you do your daily turns
Thank you both for your kind words. He's a tough old independent guy.

Yoav, thanks for the chewing gum description of a possible rind creation. I tried to follow the mould, drain, dry in an abbreviated session...then into the cave to continue slow ripening and continued draining & drying. When I turn them, I gently pat down the PC. For me, this is an introductory lesson in lactics. What works and what doesn't.

-Boofer-
Let's ferment something!
Bread, beer, wine, cheese...it's all good.

iratherfly

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Re: Chaource . . . Boofer sinks into semi-lactic
« Reply #18 on: November 29, 2011, 10:27:40 PM »
Yes, if not with this one, you will get the hang of it within a batch or two. It's super easy cheese and it's 1% fabrication 99% affinage.

Offline Boofer

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Re: Chaource . . . Boofer sinks into semi-lactic
« Reply #19 on: December 01, 2011, 08:01:41 AM »
Hey Boofer, I just noticed something in the background of one of your pics - the Morton kosher salt.  Doesn't that have some additive in it (keeping it "pourable" or whatever they call it).  Around here it does, so I get the big boxes of Diamond Crystal.  Can you get that around there?

Just wondering.
I stand corrected. The Morton Kosher salt does contain an anti-caking agent. How silly...of them, but especially of me for not being more observant. The Morton pickling salt specifically states on the box that it contains just salt. Well, that's something else I can improve upon. Thanks, MaryJ, for giving me the slap in the back of my head.  :)

Oh these little gems promise a lot of delight at the end of the month. It does seem like there is some play in the rind. I am very careful when dislodging them from the plastic grid below. If I'm not careful, I could very easily push my finger through or slide some rind off. It also looks like my SR3 may have jumped ship when I was checking out the Esrom at the same time. Seems like there's a little linens color here.

-Boofer-
« Last Edit: December 01, 2011, 08:16:07 PM by Boofer »
Let's ferment something!
Bread, beer, wine, cheese...it's all good.

iratherfly

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Re: Chaource . . . Boofer sinks into semi-lactic
« Reply #20 on: December 02, 2011, 07:34:18 AM »
Seriously man, how do you use gloves on food you should be eating?  O0

I think the yellow is geo. Cool them down rapidly and keep them cool until you eat them.  This rind play is the only thing to overcome with these and once you eliminate it this will be an incredible cheese. Unfortunately with the rind play you often get these geo infestations and you get an under-ripened interior which goes gooey and bitter outward.  This is such easy cheese to actually make but it's all about getting the affinage right with it. 1-2 more batches and it will be really great.

By the way, if you like St. Marcellin, the recipe is actually not too far off this one.

Offline Boofer

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Re: Chaource . . . Boofer sinks into semi-lactic
« Reply #21 on: December 02, 2011, 08:40:39 AM »
Seriously man, how do you use gloves on food you should be eating?  O0
Hey, I have them in white too.  :)  And, no, I don't have them on when I eat. ::)

I think the yellow is geo. Cool them down rapidly and keep them cool until you eat them.  This rind play is the only thing to overcome with these and once you eliminate it this will be an incredible cheese. Unfortunately with the rind play you often get these geo infestations and you get an under-ripened interior which goes gooey and bitter outward.  This is such easy cheese to actually make but it's all about getting the affinage right with it. 1-2 more batches and it will be really great.
Yeah, with my current situation, that's been tough. If you put Geo in the mix, shouldn't you expect to see Geo on the rind?

By the way, if you like St. Marcellin, the recipe is actually not too far off this one.
Never tried St. Marcellin...yet.

-Boofer-
Let's ferment something!
Bread, beer, wine, cheese...it's all good.

iratherfly

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Re: Chaource . . . Boofer sinks into semi-lactic
« Reply #22 on: December 02, 2011, 10:47:32 PM »
Fantastic little cheese. Semi lactic, bloomy, flat little disc so delicate it has to be aged in a little clay dish. Primarily bloomed with geo.

Here is the last one I made, sometime this past summer

Offline Boofer

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Re: Chaource . . . Boofer sinks into semi-lactic
« Reply #23 on: December 03, 2011, 07:07:29 AM »
Fantastic little cheese. Semi lactic, bloomy, flat little disc so delicate it has to be aged in a little clay dish. Primarily bloomed with geo.

Here is the last one I made, sometime this past summer
Intriguing treatment. I might consider that one after I do my re-engineered Tilsit...and give a Blue Castello a go.

-Boofer-
Let's ferment something!
Bread, beer, wine, cheese...it's all good.

george

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Re: Chaource . . . Boofer sinks into semi-lactic
« Reply #24 on: December 03, 2011, 11:18:23 AM »
Thanks, MaryJ, for giving me the slap in the back of my head.  :)
  Just as long as you promise to do the same for me some day.    ;D

Offline Boofer

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Re: Chaource . . . Boofer sinks into semi-lactic
« Reply #25 on: December 04, 2011, 04:07:09 PM »
I promise!  :)

Yesterday I wrapped two of the cheeses in cheese paper and put them in the big fridge. I left the other two in the minicave. I'm looking at a target for eating around Christmas. A week before will be four weeks. I'll judge what the two different aging processes do in that time.

-Boofer-
Let's ferment something!
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iratherfly

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Re: Chaource . . . Boofer sinks into semi-lactic
« Reply #26 on: December 04, 2011, 07:55:10 PM »
Chaource??? No Boofer! Consume them now. They will be ammonia by Christmas. If you make Chaource today it will be ready for Christmas.

Offline Boofer

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Re: Chaource . . . Boofer sinks into semi-lactic
« Reply #27 on: December 05, 2011, 01:06:13 AM »
Chaource??? No Boofer! Consume them now. They will be ammonia by Christmas. If you make Chaource today it will be ready for Christmas.
Really, not too soon? I didn't want to rush it.

Okay, sounds like a plan. Thanks.

-Boofer-
Let's ferment something!
Bread, beer, wine, cheese...it's all good.

iratherfly

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Re: Chaource . . . Boofer sinks into semi-lactic
« Reply #28 on: December 05, 2011, 01:57:49 AM »
Taste one. It's suppose to be a 14-28 day cheese. I am afraid you got some skin slippage in there so if you don't start eating it now you will have an ammoniated cheese.  Unlike Camembert and other rennet-coagulated cheese, this will be tasty even when it's too young. It will become more rich, smooth and interesting during aging thereafter.  It also is much better consumed at room temperature (unless you have skin slip, then consume it cold and you won't feel the bitterness of the geo)

Offline Boofer

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Re: Chaource . . . Boofer sinks into semi-lactic
« Reply #29 on: December 08, 2011, 08:27:36 AM »
Well, today was Opening Day for my first semi-lactic.

I had selected one of the cheeses from the minicave rather than one of the ones I wrapped in cheese paper and put in the big fridge. I'd still like to see what being wrapped in the paper does and also how they fare at a colder, slower affinage.

I removed this one from the fridge, placed it on a plate and covered it loosely with plastic wrap. There it sat for three hours optimistically coming to room temperature. When I cut into it, it was still slightly chilled. The rind was cool & clammy. There was a little slip-skin and slight ooze between the rind and the core. Not knowing what to expect, the paste was slightly drier than I anticipated, but still very spreadable on crusty bread. I probably could have salted a little more initially. All I did was lightly salt the top and then the bottom. Seems like I've seen some recommendations to lightly salt the sides as well, figuring that a lot of the salt will run off with the whey that drips. The rind is soft and moist. I ate it along with the paste. Not chewy or gummy.

Flavor was mild and very slightly acidic. Again, I've never had Chaource (or any lactic or semi-lactic for that matter) so I have no idea what the flavor or texture should be or if I'm even close to simulating the style.

-Boofer-
Let's ferment something!
Bread, beer, wine, cheese...it's all good.