Newbie question regarding heating during various stages

[rattman]

Hi all,

New to cheese making and trying my first hard cheese today.
Have only made a soft farm cheese and mozzerella to date.

Thinking about trying Rikki's gouda recipe: http://www.cheesemaking.com/Gouda.html

So I have been reading night and day for the past few weeks and just bought a dutch cheese press and about $300 worth of goodies from Rikki's website. Cultures, molds, etc.

I have read as many recipies as I can find and have questions about when I should be applying heat throughout the various stages of the process.

- Initial heating of milk obviously requires heat. But then after adding the cultures and allowing the to "ripen".... should I always assume that heat should continue to be applied? The directions never seem to specify. Does "ripen" always suggest applying heat, or does ripening only refer to the converting of lactose to lactic acid by adding a culture??

- Adding renet usually requires a period of time to sit undisturbed... but rarely do the directions say to remove the milk from heat at this point. Should I?? The reason I ask is that often times recipes will often suggest raising the temp slowly once this undisturbed renet period is over. I'm assuming that is because the milk cooled during the undisturbed renet time because I should have turned off the heat.

- Often times, recipes will suggest raising the temp after renet sits undisturbed by placing the pot in sink and using sink as double boiler by adding hot water to the sink. Can't I just turn my gas flame on the stove very low instead? What is the reason for this sink method? I'm assuming it is to have a better control over the heating time and intensity.

Thanks in advance everyone! And by the way... what a pleasant group of folks here! I have never read even one rude post yet! Very refreshing.

Regards,
John
Fox Lake IL USA

[linuxboy]

after adding the cultures and allowing the to "ripen".... should I always assume that heat should continue to be applied?

This about what happens when milk is made normally, in large vats. You're culturing bacteria. They need constant temps. If you are losing milk temps more than 1-2F, then yes, figure out a way to insulate the vat or add heat to equalize the heat loss.

"ripen" always suggest applying heat,

never suggests this because in large vats, with a properly heated room, the temp stays constant.

does ripening only refer to the converting of lactose to lactic acid by adding a culture??

basically, yes.

rarely do the directions say to remove the milk from heat at this point. Should I??

It is implied. You don't change physical dynamics (temp, agitation, etc) When gellifying a colloid. Do not add heat, you will have uneven coagulation if you do.

often times recipes will often suggest raising the temp slowly once this undisturbed renet period is over. I'm assuming that is because the milk cooled during the undisturbed renet time because I should have turned off the heat.

This is not the reason. You add heat after cutting the curd to encourage whey syneresis.

Can't I just turn my gas flame on the stove very low instead?

Absolutely

What is the reason for this sink method?

Thermal mass and better control of heat transfer. A pot with hot water all around heats curd evenly from the bottom and sides. Stove is only bottom, not the best heat transference. Easy to overshoot.

Welcome!

[rattman]

Thanks a bunch Linuxboy!

What would you assume regarding applying /removing from direct heat in the following recepie: http://www.cheesemaking.com/Gouda.html
??

Does she want me to keep the heat on during ripening?
Am I supposed to remove direct heat during post renet undisturbed time?

I've read some of your past posts..... Are you a scientist or something Linuxboy? You are very knowedgeable about the technical stuff!

also... I have an agritest PH meter for planting.
Assuming I can use it to test PH of milk.... how often do you pay attention to ph?
I know a lot of folks make cheese paying a lot of attention to it.
I'm assuming that if I watch for the milk to drop .1 before adding renet I should be good in many cases.

Thanks again!
John

[linuxboy]

Does she want me to keep the heat on during ripening?

No.

Am I supposed to remove direct heat during post renet undisturbed time?

Yes. Especially if electric stove and elements still hot. You don't want temp gradients.

Are you a scientist or something Linuxboy?

I think most of my friends would definitely describe me as "or something"

Assuming I can use it to test PH of milk.... how often do you pay attention to ph?

Usually, it's not exact enough for exact measurement, but you can use it to gauge relative change. Like if you start at 6.6 for milk, wait for a bit (.1) before adding rennet, etc.

how often do you pay attention to ph?

Usually, as a secondary confirmation.

I'm assuming that if I watch for the milk to drop .1 before adding renet I should be good in many cases.

True, but also watch your drain and brine pH.

[rattman]

Ok.... now I'm confused. 

Rikki says:
"Begin with 2 gallons of milk and heat to 86F. If using pasteurized milk add 1/2 teaspoon of calcium chloride to improve the final curd firmness.
Then add 1 pack of C101 culture and allow to sit quietly at this temp for 30 minutes.
Add 1/2 tsp of rennet or 1/2 rennet tablet diluted in 1/4 cup of water. Stir for 30 seconds and then allow the milk to set quietly for 40 minutes while keeping the temperature at 86F".

So she has me add culture at 86 degrees.... but she also says to to maintain a temp of 86 after adding rennet for 40 minutes.

So when do I remove from heat, and when do I begin reapplying heat?

It's the little things that will make or break chances of success. I can tell that already and I have not even made a hard cheese yet. lol.

Thanks again Linuxboy for all of your help!!

Regards,
John

[linuxboy]

but she also says to to maintain a temp of 86 after adding rennet for 40 minutes.

IMHO, it is best to seek other sources of authoritative guidance. I have no idea what maintain the temp means. If she means to actually keep the burner on, this is disastrously poor guidance.

So when do I remove from heat,

After adding rennet absolutely. Ideally, after adding culture, if the temp stays steady. If dealing with a really cold room or small volume of milk, wrap in a towel, or try to keep temp steady somehow.

and when do I begin reapplying heat?

During the scald schedule. For gouda, this is either never (because you add hot water), or after cutting and healing.

[dthelmers]

Rattman, I use a water bath to heat my milk vat. The thermal mass of the water and the milk keeps me from losing temperature. I usually make four gallon batches in a steam table pan in a water bath with a heater, about 3-1/2 gallons of water in the water bath. Once my milk has come up to temperature, it has no measurable drop in temperature for well over an hour, even if I don't have the lid on the pan. Once in a while I overshoot my initial temperature and have to take the pan out of the vat to cool it, and it loses one degree fahrenheit every 20 minutes, ambient air temperature usually about 62 degrees f. Smaller volumes of milk will change quicker, and introduce more variables into the make. I found that when I switched to four gallon batches life became easier, and when I built my water bath vat it became easier still.

[Cloversmilker]

I use an old electric bed warming pad to maintain the milk at temperature.  The pad is folded into the middle of a beach towel on the kitchen counter and the pot sits on top of it.  My cheese makes are generally 4-4.5 gallons.  The pad maintains temperature at 86-90F wonderfully and fosters domestic harmony by freeing up the kitchen sink for non cheese use.  To raise the temperature a few degrees I sometimes borrow an electric resistance band from my husband's beer making kit that goes around the milk pot. 

[Boofer]

As Dave has stated, a 4 gallon volume of milk in a double-boiler (or sink) will lose very little of its heat once you reach your target temp. I have even removed the kettle (lid on) with the 4 gallons of heated milk from the double-boiler and wrapped a towel or blanket around it to help maintain temp. It's also sitting on a folded towel to preserve heat at the bottom.

-Boofer-

[margaretsmall]

I put the warm milk into a shallow plastic container with a lid inside one of those foam boxes farmers ship vegetables in, broccoli particularly. Add the culture and put the lid on the container then the lid on the box. This serves to keep the temp. up enough - there's only a slight drop in temp. I've only made cheeses which require a small rise in temp. after the rennet/curd cutting part of the process, and I do that by pouring hot water into the foam box so that the plastic container is sitting in a warm bath. I've mostly made camembert, feta, blue vein and havarti using this method with good results.  I work with a max. of 6l of milk.

[rattman]

Ok, so I actually made a farmhouse cheddar recipe that looked a little easier:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YA2lCIGFgJk&feature=fvwrel

I used the sink bath method for my 2 gallon batch and it worked perfectly. The cheese is currently in the press!

I'm planning to upgrade to a 5 gal stock pot that I saw at wal-mart but i'm concerned that it will be to large to fit into my kitchen sink.

Thanks all so much for the great advice!

I'm hooked!

Regards,
John

[rattman]

Alrighty then......

I'd like to present to my new friends my very first hard Cheese picture!

This Farmhouse Cheddar alreaady smells good after only 18 hours out of the press.

Have it in my brand new wine cooler cheese cave at about 54 degrees with about 60% humidity. Shooting for 55 degrees and anything higher than 60-65% humidity.

So according to the youtubre directions I'm supposed to flip this cheese every 2 hours for 3-5 days until it is time to wax.

I'm assuming a stirred curd cheese should sit for at least two months so that is my target. Let me know if I should wait longer.

.................... So now for my next cheese..... hmmmmm?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?

I'm thinking maybe a parmesean. but that will take at least 6 months to sample.
Maybe a swiss, or a gouda, or a stilton, or..........

Have a great day everyone!

Regards,
John

[ellenspn]

As said elsewhere you should first dry it before moving to the cave, but flipping it every day and washing it down about every 3 days will work for now

I suggest you think about making Caerphilly as it ripens in about 3-4 weeks.

[rattman]

Thanks for the suggestion Ellen.

I'll try it when I get the new books in the mail.
Was it in the "20 easy recipes" book that you use??

Regards,
john

[ellenspn]

Yes that and Tim Smiths Making Artisan Cheese