Cross contamination?

[Dragonfish]

Hello,

I seem to have some Geo 15 infiltrating my goat brie.  I only have a small refrigerator currently for aging my cheese.  The cheeses are in Tupperware boxes on cheese mats.  Last week I had a box of crottin (which ended up in the compost as they had not drained sufficiently).  For 2 days they shared the space with a new batch of brie.  Lids slightly ajar on all boxes.

The photos show what I think is Geo 15 on my brie - tan patches, wrinkly sides.  Everything seems to be going fine otherwise.  I guess these will be big crottin 

Did this happen because both cheeses shared the fridge?  I didn't touch the crottin and then the brie.  Should I wash and bleach the fridge when the brie leaves it?

Thanks in advance for your help!

[iratherfly]

No. It seems that your brie is aged in too much moisture or wasn't properly drained (or the curd was cut too large or ladled into a mould that isn't a hoop). Your second photo displays wrinkled soft rind that seem looser on the bottom and top (has that edge that goes beyond the diameter of the cheese wheel). That's mostly a sign of rind that has grown too fast.

This is a little bit like cooking a frozen vegetable on very high heat. You burn the outside before the inside had a chance to warm up.  This is what's happening here. Under the rind you will find an overly ripe and gooey layer of pâté; but just below it you will find the rest of the cheese to be unripened (sour, stiff, crumbly, pale).  The other effect of this is ammonia that floods the gooey part. This ammonia and too much geo causes the rind to thicken up while the fumes cause that beautiful velvety PC to start receding, exposing the geo below it again.

How much geo and pc did you put in the recipe?
What temperature are you aging?
What's your moisture like?
Did you drain and dried the cheese properly before aging? How long?

Does not look like cross contamination to me, though geo lives everywhere (including your milk and cave). It can be controlled with salting, drying and lowering temperature.

[Dragonfish]

I used the recipe for goat brie in "200 Easy Homemade Cheeses".

 2 gal. milk, pinch PC.  I didn't put in any Geo 15 (that was used in the crottin which shared the fridge).

It drained 48 hours in the molds, flipping twice.  10 hours or so out of the molds before going in the ripening boxes.
I salted them with a scant 1/4 t. per side.

I noticed that the first day or two in the ripening box, I need to check it 2-3 times a day as I did have too much whey in the bottom checking once a day.  I have noted that and will change for future cheese.

The temp is 50 degrees.

After 2 days in the boxes, there was no whey on the bottom.  I closed the lids and have been wiping the inside of the box lid, patting and flipping daily.

So far, the cheese do not smell like ammonia. Can they be saved?    I thought I had followed my notes well and that batch turned out perfectly.  Learning is a process!

Thanks so much!

[george13]

Just an observation, but based on the imprint of the mat on the cheese, and from personal experiance, it is possible that there may be contact with moisture via the mat. If you are only using the plastic matting which is very thin, and on one side is the cheese and on the other the tub, you may not have proper draining and circulation, and any moisture created is again absorbed by the cheese.  Once again, just a thought, it happened with my cheese, so I elevated the mat and problem solved.

[Dragonfish]

Thank you, I am looking for something to elevate the mat in the ripening boxes that can be sterilised.

I cut open one of the cheeses and it has a very thin, maybe 1/16" of ripe softness under the rind and the rest is firm.  It actually tastes good and we are calling it "not-brie".  So we will eat what we can, quickly,  and give the rest to the chickens.  Next time will be better!

I need the fridge for Caerphilly anyway.

[JeffHamm]

I use plastic chopsticks.  Just lay a bunch down (8 to 10 of them) spaced out, then put your needle point plastic mat on top.  The chopsticks can be sterilised, are inexpesive, near indestructable, and can easily fit in most ripening boxes (well, most of mine anyway! ).

- Jeff

[iratherfly]

I am sorry for replying so late. First off, I would never close the boxes. Always leave room for air unless your cheese is extremely dry and you are trying to build moisture in the box. This cheese is meant to be aged at 90%-95% RH, not 100%. That's a big part of your issue and also why the rind grew so fast. The other part of it is that you are at 50°F and I am not sure if you drained it at 50°F but if you did, it really slows the draining and keep more moisture in the cheese than you want.  It is often the case with these cheeses that they are not sufficiently drained and that causes this skin condition.  Another major factor is this:

I salted them with a scant 1/4 t. per side.

I assume you meant 1/4 tablespoon which sounds to me like far less than what this cheese needs. The salt is of course not just a flavorant but it also promote the drainage of the whey through osmosis (like putting it on eggplant or cucumber or cabbage and finding a puddle of water underneath 30 minutes later. Same happens with salt and cheese).  It also has two other functions: It acts as an antiseptic which helps prevent cross-contamination, and it also helps control the growth speed of Geo and PC so you can inhibit or accelerate them by using it. By all means, be generous with the salt. Salting cheese properly always looks like too much salt but it's not.  Weigh the cheese and calculate 2% of its weight in salt to sprinkle on the cheese. Considering some salt will fall on the counter and off the cheese, you will effectively have 1.7%-1.8% salt on it. Some of it will drain promptly with the whey and you will end up with a cheese that has a very proper 1.5% salt.

[Dragonfish]

Thank you for replying.  Yes, lots of items to tweak.  I guess it was just dumb luck that the previous brie turned out so well. 

I drain at room temp. which, for me, is average 63 degrees.  The kitchen is cool, it's winter etc.  I'll bet I could drain them in the oven with the door ajar (gas pilot) and I will check the temp to see what it is.  Perhaps somehere in the 70's would be best?

Yes, I only used a scant 1/4 teaspoon per side.  Way too little salt.  I like the method of weighing the cheese - much more accurate.

[iratherfly]

Have you tried it again yet?

I would check the internal temp of the oven with the pilot first by sticking a thermometer there first. (Also gas and yeasts coming of stuff that was baked there before may effect the cheese).  you don't want to drain too high because this will cause too early of a rind bloom and subsequent slip skin. You also don't want to drain it too cold because it will tighten the curd and slow or stop the flow of whey.  63°F is fine for draining.

[Dragonfish]

I am making goat brie today!  I'm glad to hear that my room temp. is warm enough.  I will weigh the cheeses and salt wth the proper amount and I will look for something to elevate my cheese mat.  I couldn't find plastic chopsticks which would have been perfect - I guess I really live in the sticks  And I will  not close my ripening boxes. 

Thanks for all the help.

[ellenspn]

That explained perfectly what went on with my first camembert!

[iratherfly]

Good luck!  Close the boxes more and more gradually as the cheese dries. The right condition for Camembert is when you have beads on the box and lid, but not enough beads that they can drop on the cheese. That's that 95% relative humidity you are looking for. Not 100%, not 90%.