Cheddared Cheeses - Poor Curd Knitting In Press, Ripening Recommendations & Prevention Discussion

[rattman]

Hi  all,

So I tried my second hard cheese over the weekend. It was Rikki;s Cheshire that is on her website: http://www.cheesemaking.com/Cheshire.html
 I did the 2 pound version in a 4.5 inch mold.

I also found the same recipe in the 200 easy homemade cheese book. The book suggested that there can be no cracks, but also said that could be difficult to achieve because I had already salted the curds. The book said that if there are cracks I should quickly wax or bandage with lard (I also read that butter works well to) smeared all over the outside of the cheese. I'm assuming I'm supposed to fill the cracks with lard or butter as well to inhibit bacterial growth.

I was also told to place the cheese in scalding water breifly before drying it at room temp. I did that.

So the cheese has been drying at room temp for a few days and now I need to decide what to do to salvage this thing.

Looking at the picture, can anyone offer some advice?
Should I wax or bandage?
Lard or butter smear??

Any other advice would be appreciated.

[Tomer1]

Time for a vacuum sealer?

Wax will be very hard to remove when consumed.
Natural rind will be impossible to control,yeast and mold will easly penetrate your cheese.

[rattman]

I have a food saver.

Is it time now?

Do I need to seal w lard or anything??

[JeffHamm]

Hi rattman,

You won't need to lard or anything if you vac seal it.

What are you using for a press?  Are you using a screwdown type press or are you stacking weights?  A number of people have posted difficulties getting a good knit with cheddar type cheeses (like cheshire) using a screwdown type press.  It's hard to get enough pressure, and you have to keep tighening the screws to keep the pressure up.  Weights don't have that problem, they just fall down - usually in the middle of the night! 

Still, I've been able to get a decent knit on a cheshire (following fied's recipe) by pressing in the pot (i.e. put the mold in the pot and put the pot in a sink of warm water, say 40 C) then stack weights on top.  I stack enough weight for the overnight press to get a PSI of around 2.5, which on your 4.5 inch mold would only require about 40 lbs or 18 kg of weight to be stacked on top of the follower.  I have to almost double that on my 6.25" mold, so I know it can be done.

For anything larger, though, a dutch press is really the way to go for these types.  Well worth it in the end though.

- Jeff

[rattman]

Thanks JeffHamm,

I have a great dutch press.... but the recipe was a bit funky in that the curds had to sit in the mold UNPRESSED overnight in order to increase acidity. Advice was almost the opposite of pressing under whey.

I'm assuming that this step is what made the pressing so difficult.

I had the 2 lbs pressed as high as 70 lbs for the final evening.

[Crystal]

Did you keep the curds warm overnight? Cold curds dont knit well.

[rattman]

Kept em between 80-85degrees all night by putting them in a tiny room with a space heater set at 83.

Next morning they went right into the press as the instructions suggest. (see lnk above).

[Crystal]

beats me then rattman, thats all i know about cheese! LOL, sorry!

[rattman]

Oh well. Practice practice!

I sure hope I can salvage the cheese though!

[Sailor Con Queso]

Salted curd cheeses are sometimes difficult to press. Salted curd cheeses that drain and acidify for an extended period (like Cantal) are always difficult to press. In looking at your wheel, you did not use near enough weight to press.

Here is an excerpt from Ricki's recipe. Note the 150 pounds used in the final pressing (for 2 days).
................................................. ............
The next morning the cheese is removed from the forms, re-wrapped in cloth, and placed in a press. It will be pressed slowly for about 2 days and turned daily while in the press. The weight begins light at about 12-20 lbs and is increased gradually until finally it reaches about 150 pounds in a 6 inch diameter form.
................................................. ............

Search the Forum for "Pressing In The Pot" for another approach.

[JeffHamm]

Hi,

Ahh, ok, so you've got the right kind of a press for this cheese.  As Sailor says, it's probably just a matter of increaseing the pressure.  70 lbs on a 4.5 inch diameter mold works out to 4.4 PSI, which is more than my 2.5 PSI.  However, I've pressed the curds in the pot and straight away, not the next day.  The 150 lbs on a 6 inch mold is 5.31 PSI. You have a smaller diameter mold, so you won't need as much weight to get the same PSI.  In fact, all you need is about 84.5 lbs (call it 85 for good luck).  Mind you, that's not far off what you've done so you may need to go even higher.  If you can get it up to 150 lbs, that would be close to 10 PSI, and I'm pretty sure that would solve your problem. 

You could also try fied's cheshire recipe, as it doesn't call for the over night acidification and you can press right away.  I would think you could build up your acidity in a warm pot, press in the pot, and the acidity will still build up while you press over night anyway.  But then, I could be wrong, which I'm afraid to say, has been known to happen.

- Jeff

[rattman]

Sailor,

I hear you... but as JeffHamm pointed out, the recipe calls for a 6 inch mold and is also a 4 gal recipe.

I did a 2 gal batch.
I figured that with half the milk, I needed roughly half of the pressing weight.
Was that an incorrect assumption?

Looks like I will need to try feid's recipe next time.

JeffHamm, in your attempt at Cheshire (http://cheeseforum.org/forum/index.php?topic=8362.0) you noted that you poured the remaining whey out of the pot before your initial press. So, you did NOT press under whey then... right? You just pressed in an empty pot in the sink to keep temp?

I think my downfall (per the recipe) was to let the curds sit in the press overnight in 80-85 degree room with no weight before actually applying weight for 2 days. I wonder why this technique works for Rikki though??

[JeffHamm]

Hi Rattman,

That's correct.  I didn't press under whey, just "in the pot" which is kept warm.  Put a lid or towel over the pot (not a towel used for making bread as you don't want yeast to cross over).  This keeps the heat and humidity up, and really helps in getting a good knit.  The curds are still warm so pressing in the pot, which is in a warm water bath, keeps them warm and moist.  Hmmm, might be difficult to do with a dutch press as I do this with the pot in the sink.  Sailor has used some heat mats to do this as well.

As for the pressing weight, it has more to do with the size of the mold than the volume of the cheese.  You need to convert the weight to pressure, which is just pounds per square inch.  So, a 6" mold has an area of about 28.25 square inches (area = pi r squared, and pi is about 3.14, and r is half the diameter of the mold).  So, if you spread 150 lbs evenly over that area, you would have  5.31 lbs per square inch (PSI).  You have a smaller mold, 4.5 inches across, so a radius (r) of 2.25.  That means the area is only 3.14 times 2.25 squared, or 15.9 square inches.  Now, if were to put 5.31 lbs on each of those square inches, you would have a total of 15.9 * 5.31 = 84.41 lbs.  And, you would use this even if you doubled the size of your cheese as long as you used the same mold (so your cheese would be much taller).

I've attached an excel sheet that I use to do a lot of the calculations like this that are involved in cheesemaking. 

- Jeff

[dthelmers]

The last cheddar I made I used over 6 psi and feel it could have been a bit heavier. I washed the curds in a stout reduction which seemed to make it less inclined to knit. There were one or two small places where I could see a crack between the curds. We'll see when it is cut open how well I avoided mechanical openings. I think I'll go heavier next time. Can you have too much pressure for cheddar?

[Crystal]

LOVE that workbook Jeff, you just saved me hours of searching, converting and mistakes! Thats so awesome!