best size for first mold?

[eric1]

I've never made a hard cheese before and could really some advice on fashioning a mold or two.  Am I correct in assuming very roughly 1 lb of hard cheese per gallon of cow's or goat's milk?  I've got an 8 gallon stainless steel pot, which is probably going to define my maximum size.  I can mostly pretty easily fill that pot with cow's milk, but I'd also like to be able to work with goat's milk, if feasible, which is often limited to around 1 gallon per day.

Can anyone tell me what, very roughly, is the range of cheese weights (corresponding presumably to the height of the wheels) that might be made in a 4", 5", 6", or 7" mold?  I'm trying to figure out how many inches of diameter I'd need for however many gallons of milk.

What would be a generous height for the mold cylinder?

Also, I've seen molds with and without holes in the sides for whey drainage.  If I'm using stainless steel for the mold, do I want to drill holes around the mold?  If so, how big and how many?

Thanks very much for any advice!

[Cheese Head]

eric1, good question, your 8 US gallon stockpot will probably only hold 7 gallons. Final cheese yield depends on cheese type, but 1 pound per USG is a good rule of thumb for hard cheeses.

Obviously you will need a different sized mold for a 1-2 gallon of goat's milk vs 7-8 of cow's.

As a go-by, see my latest Gouda worklog and pics where I made two wheels from 8 USG of whole cow's milk. Those wheels are from 7 in ID Kadova brand molds. So with your 7-8 USG batch, if one 7" diameter mold you would probably have a ~7" tall final cheese. Unless you go to two wheels like I do.

On pressing weights, it depends on what type of cheese and what diameter hoops, there are several pressing weight threads if you search or hunt around the forum.

On whey holes on sides of hoops, there was a discussion thread, just can't find it right now, also again depends on what type of cheeses, some info here.

Hope helps.

[eric1]

John, thanks very much for the advice.  7" tall for a 7" diameter wheel seems like kind of an odd shape.  It sounds like you're saying you'd recommend going maybe 8" in diameter if you were beginning with an 8 gallon pot?  It seems like one large wheel would keep and age better and have relatively less rind than two smaller wheels.  Are there reasons you'd recommend two smaller wheels?

On the other hand, looking at the chart you linked to, I'm thinking mostly of styles of cheese that would store better, more along the lines of the cheddar or parmesan.  Fall and winter are the only seasons I can see really finding time for cheese making, and by winter my milk supply is typically at its weakest.  So my tentative plan is to make a lot of cheese in the fall to last the rest of the year.  So maybe with the lower yield cheeses 7" would be more appropriate?  Or still a little small, do you think?

Does 4 to 4-1/2" diameter sound about right for 1 to 2 gallons of goat's milk?

What about heights?  I assume I'll need to initially be able to accommodate  quite a bit more height than the what the cheese will eventually get pressed down to?

I didn't know the difference between a hoop and a mold or why to choose one over the other.  Thanks for that link, too.  That has me thinking that a stainless hoop without any holes would probably work for me.

[iratherfly]

This really depends on what cheese you are trying to make. Typical Tomme mould is Ø7½" diameter and 4" high. That is for a 4 Lbs. cheese that is made with roughly 4 gallons of milk.  You can also make smaller cheeses such as a Reblochon style which are typically  Ø5½" diameter and 3" high. These make roughly 1 Lb wheel.  Camemberts are made with bottomless hoops that are Ø4" diameter and about 5" tall. They make a smaller cheese, maybe 12 Oz.  Then you have the smaller Saint Marcellin, Crottin and crottin-aperitif moulds that makes far smaller cheeses.

As far as holes, use of hoops and patterns for high or low flow, this has a lot to do with the individual cheese and technique.  I suggest to spend a few bucks and get a proper mould. A mould that will serve you for many years cost far less than the milk of one batch of cheese you are going to make in it or throw away by using improper moulds.

[eric1]

Thanks, iratherfly, for the advice.  I'm sure I could buy some molds/hoops plenty cheap enough, but even then I would need to know what size to buy to optimally fit my milk supply, desired cheese styles, and my other equipment.  You and John have given me a much better idea than I had before.  Thank you!  A lot my interest in cheese making is in getting away from the consumerist way of things.  I also have a perhaps silly desire for my equipment to look the homegrown part.  I know stainless steel isn't traditional and will probably wind up costing me more than a ready-to-use, purpose-made plastic mold/hoop, but it seems like the best compromise between the style I want and what I can actually make happen so that I can start making hard cheeses.  For starters, I see myself wanting to be able to take about 7 gallons of cow's milk and make the basic recipes from the front page of this forum for Alpine cheese, cheddar, and parmesan.  With my goat's milk I'd like to try making smaller (1-2 gallons of milk) batches with more or less the Alpine recipe.  In other words, everything I'm most interested in would be quite hard and suitable to longer aging (assuming I'm understanding the options correctly.)  I'm thinking 8" diameter and about 4-1/2" diameter for the goat's milk batches.  How much taller than the finished height of the cheese does a hoop/mold need to be to accommodate the curds initially?

[Cheese Head]

eric1, in my mind hoops are generally round cylinders that can have a high or low diameter to height ratio and go on a base and if pressed, have a follower. Molds can be round or square or rectangular and have a bottom and if pressed have a follower. That said most people use both terms interchangeably, for example as does Ullmers used cheese making equipment supplier in US.

Agree, a single cheese wheel from 8 USG milk would be more robust for aging than two smaller pressed wheels like I've been doing. Just meant that as an example, my problem was that next bigger size Kadova Brand Gouda shaped molds was too big for my 10 USG stockpot vat, so I bought two 7" diameter molds.

Yes 4"-4-1/2" diameter should be good for 1 USG pressed cheeses but will make a tall cylinder for 2 USG pressed cheeses, suggest going to 5-6" diameter if can.

I'd use ~75% excess height for fresh curds before pressing, 100% to be safe if you have the material. So if final pressed cheese is 4" tall, I'd make a 7-8" height mold.

On holes in side of mold, when pressing, whey needs avenues to escape. Without side holes, the whey coming out of sides of cheese during pressing will need to go into your cloth liner then down the cloth to the bottom and out the mold through the bottom holes, quite a tortuous and time consuming route. Side holes speed up the pressing by faster draining of whey and give a more evenly dehydrated cheese surface than just the bottom and top.

Stainless steel may not be historically traditional but is used in many commercial cheese making plants.

On recipes, I'd take those recipes on the website without details and pictures etc with a grain of salt (I wrote/copied them from elsewhere and thus they are not time tested). For each cheese type you want to make, I'd read as many threads as possible on that cheese to learn all the traps and tricks from others.

[mrawlins]

I was going to ask nearly the same question when I got around to it. I was happy to see others beat me to it.

I've been using my 4.5" hoop for 1-3 gallon batches, and it gets really full on those larger batches.  Often I have to press half an hour, load more curds, flip, press more, add more curds, etc. a few times to get all the curds in.  Or I don't use all the milk I have on hand, which always makes me sad.

Sounds like it's time to invest in a 6" or 7" hoop for 3-4 gallon batches.