Question about Derby Cheese

[JeffHamm]

Hi,

I just read the following on the British Cheese Board's web site:

"
Derby

Like most of the traditional British hard cheeses Derby was produced exclusively on farms and was typically sold at a younger age than its more famous cousins Cheddar and Cheshire. Its claim to fame is that the first creamery in the UK was set up by a group of farmers in the village of Longford in Derbyshire – the farmers having agreed to pool their milk and have the cheese made on a larger scale using techniques that had been developed in the USA. In many respects Derby is similar to Cheddar but has softer body (it doesn’t go through the Cheddaring process) and slightly higher moisture content. When young it is springy and mild but as it matures subtle sweet flavours develop and the texture becomes firmer. Fowlers Forest Dairy in Warwickshire are one of the few producers of a traditional drum shaped cheese and they claim to be the oldest cheese making family in the UK being able to trace their roots back to family members who were making cheese in Derbyshire in the 16th Century. A number of farm based dairies also make Derby cheese – such as Belton cheese, Joseph Heler and Reeces of Malpas.
"

The underlined/bold/italics were added by me, but it's this bit that interests me.  All the recipies I've seen indicate a cheddaring phase (flipping the curd mass in the warm pot, usually for about an hour).  Whats up with the differences?  If Derby isn't cheddared, do they just keep it at temperature longer to build up the necessary acidity?   

- Jeff

[dthelmers]

Jeff,
In "200 Easy Home Made Cheese Recipes", the Caerphilly is not cheddared, but the curds are left to settle in the whey for 45 minutes. I've used this recipe a lot, and it comes comes out very much like a cheddar, despite the lack of cheddaring, so perhaps they do that. I also make a "cheddar" that doesn't go thru the cheddaring process, but instead a light pressing for an hour or two, then milling and salting. I've wondered how much the cheddaring process accomplishes that wouldn't happen anyway from sitting.

[JeffHamm]

Hi Dave,

Maybe I'm missing something (edit: Doh, as in, you're talking about Caerphilly, not Derby! LOL), in 200 Easy Homemade Cheese, for Derby, step 7 (page 278 in my copy) reads as follows:

7) Carefully pour off the wehy, leaving the curds in the bottom of the pot.  Press the curds down lightly with your hand to help them knit together.  Put the lid back on the pot to keep the curds warm.  Let stand for 15 minutes.  Turn the curd mass over in the pot, pressing again with your hands, more firmly this time, to expel more whey.  Drain off any collected whey.  Keeping warm, continue turning the curd mass in the pot, pressing each time, every 15 minutes for 1 hour.

So, isn't that describing cheddaring?  The flipping of the curd mass in the warm pot?  It doesn't involve cutting the curd cake into slabs and stacking them, but I thought this "holding at temp and flipping the curds" in a dry pot (it doesn't read like they are to sit in whey since it seems to indicate to pour it off) was cheddaring?

- Jeff

[Tomer1]

The cheddaring is meant to achive things other then acidification such as expelling whey and im sure there is also a calcium variable from draining at that specific point which determines texture.


That process does sound alot like makeshift cheddaring.
I think to get a clear understanding we need to know how the cheese was\is done in "normal" scale professionally.

[dthelmers]

Jeff,
What I meant was that Caerphilly is a similar cheese, and this recipe doesn't cheddar the curds, but gets a similar result. The same thing with many farmhouse cheddar recipes I've seen, no cheddaring as such, but letting the curd acidify while it rests. If the commercially produced Derby is not cheddared, perhaps it follows the same type of make as this Caerphilly recipe, or perhaps they do a light pressing before milling and salting, as I do with my farmhouse cheddar. The recipe in 200 Easy for Derby is definitely what I would consider cheddaring, even though the curd mat is not cut and stacked. In the Caerphilly recipe, my intuition says that resting the curds under the whey for 45 minutes should lead to more retention of whey, but the cheese doesn't come out much different than a cheddared cheese, or my lightly pressed cheese. It feels to me like once syneresis has started, it continues on its own somewhat, even if it's under whey. Like pre-pressing under whey for a Gouda: it doesn't seem to change the moisture content in the final cheese.

[JeffHamm]

Hi Dave,

Yah, after I read your post carefully I realised you were using caerphilly as an example!  Just a thick head over the holidays.  I suspect you're probably correct, and that Derby has some step like the extended whey bath that substitutes for the cheddaring.  Just curious, and wonder if this is some sort of relatively new thing or if Derby was always made without cheddaring. 

- Jeff

[dthelmers]

I wonder the same thing. I've seen recipes for Caerphilly that cheddar the curd, but 200 Easy doesn't. I wonder if there are recipes for Derby that don't cheddar; and that makes me wonder what cheddaring is accomplishing precisely, and how it differs from resting the curd in the whey, or doing a light pressing. I wonder how Cheddar was made hundreds of years ago. Was it the same process as we know as cheddaring, or did they leave it in the mold like Cantal? I've heard conflicting stories. I guess some experimentation is called for here, perhaps I'll try cheddaring my next make of Caerphilly and compare results with my usual make, now that I'm getting very consistent results.

[JeffHamm]

Hi Dave,

I was just looking at an old book "Hints on Cheesemaking" from 1870 and Cheesemaking, Cheddar, Swiss, Brick, Limburger, Edam, Cottage, from 1900.  Bother are available for free download from http://www.archive.org/, which is an online library for books that are no longer under copywrite.  Anyway, in one of them, or possibly both, the author was of the opinion that whether the acidity is built up by stacking or by just leaving in the whey, the end result was pretty much the same.  But, obviously they were discussing this over 150 years ago. 

I've made caerphilly mostly using the stacked and milled version, but my 4th was made as per 200 Homemade Cheese Recipies.  The end results are certainly similar cheeses.  My most recent caerphilly was a stacked/milled one and I increased the cheddaring time to 30 minutes, and pressed heavier than I normally do.  It's a very nice result (just opened it yesterday at 3 weeks to the day), it might be a bit less tangy that usual, but I'm not sure.  That tells me that even if it is, it's not by much.  It most definately has the flavours that I associate with young caerphilly.

What I might do is go back to the 200 make procedure and maybe adapt it to the Derby recipe and see how that works out.

- Jeff

[JeffHamm]

I found an old thread that contained an 1800's book that contains a description of how to make Derbyshire cheese:

http://cheeseforum.org/forum/index.php/topic,606.0.html

I quickly read it and it seems that it involves pressing and milling rather than cheddaring.  I'll have to read it more carefully when I'm not so sleepy.  It's bedtime for bonzo!

- Jeff

[JeffHamm]

Hi,

Here's what I got from the 1885 book.  I've started to make a few notes about turning this into a homemakers recipe (i.e. the ripen 1 hour is my insert since they mixed the previous evening's milk with the morning's, so a fairly long ripening time).  Anyway, some of the information is a bit vauge, with instructions like "until sufficient", so this will require some playing with to get rough ideas of what sufficient is.

Anyway, it has no cheddaring indicated, rather, a series of pressing and milling.  Also, the first press is done "under whey".

- Jeff


Derby Cheese (pages 87-89) from The Dairy of the Farm, James Long and J.C. Morton, 1885.

Warm to 80 (26.7 C)
Ripen 1 hour (uses previous evening’s milk mixed with the mornings)
Rennet and cut at 1 hour or less (3.5 x floc)
Cut at stirred gently for “a sufficient time”? (30 minutes?)
A “presser” is used (i.e. a screen is pressed through the whey to condense the curds on the bottom) and remove the whey to the level of the pressed curds
Press the curds more firmly to separate more whey
May be lightly salted at this point (though not always)
Curd cake is broken up and pressed, broken and pressed, repeatedly enough times as necessary.
Made into sizes of 4 per cwt (28 pounds each if this is UK cwt, 25 if US)
Salt is then rubbed into the cheese, or it may be brined.

[dthelmers]

Thanks for the research, Jeff! These books are pretty fascinating! So they press and break it up, as I do with my farmhouse cheddar, but they do it repeatedly. I wonder what effect that has? I'll try it on my next cheddar make and see what it does.

[JeffHamm]

No problem, here's the original text in full:

Derbyshire Cheese-making does not differ materially from that which obtains in Gloucestershire in making a thick (double Gloucester) cheese.  It is usual to make but once a day, unless in very hot weather, when it may be doubtful if the milk can be got cool and kept sweet during the night, in which case cheese is made in the evening as well as morning.  In general, however, the evening’s milk is put in thin layers in the cheese-tub and other vessels to cool during the night, tin vessels of cold water being put to stand it in in order to subject it to as large a cooling surface as possible.  In the morning, if much cream has risen, it is partly skimmed, and, if necessary, warmed up with some milk and added to the morning’s milk, so as to bring the whole to about 80.  In the summer time, however, the rennet has often to be added when the milk is naturally warmer than this.  Enough fresh-made rennet is added to set the whole in an hour or less.  After the curd has been broken with the common sieve curd-braker, used gently for a sufficient time, a presser is used – a sort of heavy metallic sieve “follower,” which sinks gradually through the whey and ultimately lies upon the curd, enabling the baling out of the whey.  After this has been for the most part taken out, this follower is forced hard down on the curd so as to squeeze and still further separate the whey from it.  The curd may then be slightly salted, thought this is not always done at that time.  It is broken by hand into a vat and pressed ; taken out and broke up again, re-vatted and again pressed ; and this may be done more than once – as often, indeed, as seems to be required.  It is at length finally vatted,  in sizes of about 4 to the cwt. ; (note ; 1 cwt = 100 lbs in the US, but it’s 112 lbs in the UK). Its whole surface is made to take in as much salt as it will hold by rubbing and pressing ; this gets liquefied by the exuding moisture and is absorbed.  It is dry-clothed and changed in the press daily, and is in the press four or five days being being finally removed to the cheese-room, where it is turned at gradually-increasing intervals until read for the market.
   In some district, and notably in Lancashire, no salt is put in the curd, but the cheeses, after two or three days’ pressing, are placed in brine for a week, in which they float, going in soft at first and coming out hardened.  They are taken thence to the cheese-room, and turned daily until sold.

- Jeff

[dthelmers]

New Year's eve I made a cheddar, and followed this regimen. I drained at 6.04. and pressed at 3 psi for an hour, then broke it up into olive sized pieces and re-pressed. The pH was 5.14, and whey was noticeably expressed as soon as it was in the press, although the curd felt dry to the touch. Pressed again at 3 psi for another hour, pH was 5.08. Re-pressed at 3 psi, small amount of whey expressed. Milled the curd and salted, pH at 5.02, and pressed at 9.9 psi. Left it in the press for 24 hours, re-dressed and put back in the press. No whey is being expressed, everything is dry. I'll keep re-dressing and  returning to the press for several days.
I was surprised to see how much whey was expressed on the second pressing, when I thought that the curd was quite dry, but breaking it up and re-pressing got out quite a bit more whey. I don't see what the extended pressing does for the cheese, but I've read of it before, so I'll try it out and see what, if any, difference it makes. Time will tell!

[anutcanfly]

Good questions!  This thread is getting very interesting.  I'm looking forward to reading the results of your experiments.

[JeffHamm]

Great work Dave!  I've not had a chance to give this a try yet.  I'm very interested to see how it turns out as well.  Don't forget to post a few photos once it's out of the press.  So the pressing and re-milling, etc, helped to expell whey a few times.  How long are you planning on aging it?

- Jeff