Saint-Marcellin - Ripening Discussion > Slip Skin Problem

[george13]

I would like to ask for some advice and expertise on this process.  My objective is to make a couple of these cheeses for an upcoming charity event for flood victims in my area, and would like to time their readiness for the day of the event
During past trials, I inoculated with PC/GEO by spray, within 1 week I had mold development, within 20 days, I had a somewhat soft interior just beneath the surface, but a somewhat solid core.  Within 35 days, the liquidity lessened and would only show if held at room temp for a while.  In my opinion, ideal consistency was reached at around 55-60 days. Since by this time most cheese had been consumed, I have no way of knowing how much longer of a consumption span I had.
I guess, it would help if I can determine when it is recommended that I wrap the cheese in its traditional double wrapper and deliver for consumption.
Thanks

[Tomer1]

From my understanding good PC cheese has several main determinal factors to get proper ripening.
The size (diameter and hight) needs to be correct
Proper draining to reach required moisture level
proper temprature of ripening. (the majority of ripening - post coverage needs to happen slowly to produce even protolysis\softening of paste and prevent slip skin)

[iratherfly]

Can you be specific George? Are these goat's cow's cheese? Are they large? small? Most lactic/semi lactic should dry extensively and age for 14-21 days to be at peak.  More sophisticated large format cheeses such as cow's milk Brie de Melun can be aged 60 days. I am not sure what consistency you are targeting, but a chalky brittle center and a more fluffy soft towards the outside is considered perfect in Crottin style cheese. You don't want to go past it. It will either ammoniate or harden from then on.

[george13]

This is my first attempt at Saint Marcellin, I used 100% Jersey milk.  Made on Nov. 30, left to drain at room temp until Dec 2, salted and placed in regular refrigeration 40F to dry out some more and further drain.  On Dec 4th (four days later) sprayed with PC/GEO combo (did not have the info from your oher post at the time regarding use of GEO as predominant). Placed into cave 52F inside closed box, flipped daily. Every other day oppened box to lessen humidity.  Today (22 days after innoculation, I have a very soft outside ring and a somewhat firmer core. Past two days, I removed box cover to lessen humidity.  I am now debating if I should wrap and place in standard refrigeration.
 I read an article:  "Once the mould has fully grown, wrapping is a crucial part of the ripening of the cheese. The wrapping stops the mould from further outward growth. The mould consumes the acid inside the cheese and this causes the PH level to rise. As the pH level rises and the protein is broken down, the cheese becomes soft.   "  and for some reason the part of stopping the mold from outward growth made perfect sense. 

[Tomer1]

The wrapping stops the mould from further outward growth

This is correct, PC works in the presence of oxygen so by wrapping it your restricting oxygen and growth.

[george13]

Major Dissaster:  It's slip skin of the greatest magnitude.  What bothers me is that I drained carefully and did not rush the process.  I use bottomless molds with holes on the side, I waited for a pH of 4.6 before ladeling my curds into said molds.  I flipped frequently, left in molds overnight at least 16 hours, then salted and allowed two more days of draining in the refigerator.  I believe that it must be the use of PC and in my case Naige rather than VS that just speeds the process too much.  I felt that I kept the humidity at acceptable levels, as was the temperature.  That skin is just too thick, and the liquid too runny. Also, next time I may innoculate the milk rather than spray, perhaps this will provide a more even distribution of mold.

[iratherfly]

That's a difficult one. The Neige is far more aggressive than the VS indeed but this could also be the result of too much geo. Moreover, the things about these lactic varieties is that no matter how much you drain them... they still never seem to be drained enough. This is their #1 most common issue. Lower humidity, use less agressive strains and drain them cool but not cold. It needs to be warm enough to allow free flowing rapid draining but cold enough to prevent the growth of Geo and PC prematurely. When Geo begins to grow early it makes up this thick skin, locks moisture inside the cheese and start going crazy with proteolysis which breaks down the proteins too fast and turns the area under the rind to runny ammonia before the interior had a chance to age.

[george13]

You are absolutely correct in all your observations.  The draining temp is definately cruccial, with the onset of winter I may have missed my target temp. and the final cheese held too much liquid.  Also the use of geo should have been lessened.  But that's okay, this is how we all learn.  Thank you very much for your advice.

[DeejayDebi]

To much moisture during ripening will do that.

[iratherfly]

Deejay! I missed you!
George, any time. Just do it again. These semi-lactics are so easy to do and you get so much yield out of them. When you get it right you get it forever. They are well-worth the practice.  By the way, consider a change of mould if you feel your mould doesn't allow for initial release of whey that is rapid enough. Alternatively, consider extended pre-draining in a cheesecloth bag. In some french cheese they even press the bags sometimes.