Author Topic: texture options with yogurt  (Read 6065 times)

eric1

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texture options with yogurt
« on: December 26, 2011, 02:05:00 AM »
What texture profile are you looking for? More like a creamy, sour-cream like yogurt? Or one where you spoon and it forms almost a clean break? Or one that just coats the spoon nicely when you stick it in? Or maybe tell me a commercial variety you like?

I was intrigued by this comment that I transferred from another thread.  I've always viewed these differences as matters of random fortune or misfortune.  I'm sure adding milk powder or gums, etc. can achieve different yogurt styles, but are there ways to achieve noticeably different styles with just cultures and process?  I've tried using different store brands for culture (Dannon, Seven Stars, something that sounds like Eritrea, whatever the popular brand is that advertises the cream on top...), but I never really noticed any difference in the yogurt I made with any of the different brands.  I'd love to have enough understanding to take some control of the variables and intentionally achieve different styles of yogurt.

linuxboy

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Re: texture options with yogurt
« Reply #1 on: December 26, 2011, 04:42:48 AM »
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I've always viewed these differences as matters of random fortune or misfortune.
They are, in fact, something you can create with exact specificity, as if you had a dial... which a maker does in yogurt by controlling milk composition, make/treatment, and culture selection.
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but are there ways to achieve noticeably different styles with just cultures and process?
Yes, anything from runny to stand-your-spoon-in thick can be accomplished with bacteria and temp alone. Process does help in the sense that scalding denatures whey protein and caseins adsorb it, making for a thicker set.
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but I never really noticed any difference in the yogurt I made with any of the different brands.
By and large, those are all standard formulations. If you are after specific textural attributes, you have to be very strain-specific in your choices. Especially when it comes to acidophilus and Strep salivarius thermophilus. The major culture houses have specific strains you can use to achieve the taste you want (mild to tart) and the texture you want. Yogurt texture through bacteria is achieved by the various exo-polysaccharide structures (EPS) present on the cell wall. These enable cells to form long chains, and give body and texture to the lactic gel. Anything from ropy and thin to thick.

Tomer1

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Re: texture options with yogurt
« Reply #2 on: December 26, 2011, 02:02:12 PM »
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scalding denatures whey protein and caseins adsorb it

Does the same effect happends during ultra pastuerization?

eric1

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Re: texture options with yogurt
« Reply #3 on: December 26, 2011, 07:44:53 PM »
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I've always viewed these differences as matters of random fortune or misfortune.
They are, in fact, something you can create with exact specificity, as if you had a dial... which a maker does in yogurt by controlling milk composition, make/treatment, and culture selection.

I feel like I'm a long way from dialing in any intentional options.  Can you give some simple examples of ways that those variables might be manipulated to achieve two or three different styles that would be desirable according to preference? 

margaretsmall

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Re: texture options with yogurt
« Reply #4 on: December 26, 2011, 09:52:33 PM »
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scalding denatures whey protein and caseins adsorb it

Does the same effect happends during ultra pastuerization?

Is that why UHT milk makes yoghurt even though it doesn't work for cheese?

Offline NimbinValley

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Re: texture options with yogurt
« Reply #5 on: December 27, 2011, 04:10:28 AM »
Are all of these options also available to goat milk?  I would like to create a very thick stand your spoon up goat milk yogurt.  To date even with thickeners I just get a coat the back of your spoon yogurt.

Any suggestions anyone?

Tomer1

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Re: texture options with yogurt
« Reply #6 on: December 27, 2011, 04:38:44 AM »
Drain it.

Goat usually has weaker set, practically all commerical goat yogurt ive seen use thickeners (strach\protein\gums) to enhance a firmer texture.

Offline NimbinValley

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Re: texture options with yogurt
« Reply #7 on: December 27, 2011, 04:51:14 AM »
Yes.  After all of the reading I have done I think draining is my best option, assuming the make is ok.

What are some suggested draining times and materials that people are using?

Thanks.

linuxboy

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Re: texture options with yogurt
« Reply #8 on: December 28, 2011, 12:21:51 AM »
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Does the same effect happends during ultra pastuerization?

Yes, which is why you can't use UHT milk for rennet cheeses, but why it works fine for lactic and many semi-lactic types.
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Can you give some simple examples of ways that those variables might be manipulated to achieve two or three different styles that would be desirable according to preference? 

Can you please read
http://www.wacheese.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=50:cultured-yogurt-howto&catid=48:cultured-dairy&Itemid=68
and then ask a little more specific question to help me out. Mostly, you can control solids, denature or not, and then select cultures, or drain after.
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Are all of these options also available to goat milk?  I would like to create a very thick stand your spoon up goat milk yogurt.  To date even with thickeners I just get a coat the back of your spoon yogurt.

Any suggestions anyone?

yes, and we've had a thread here where I cover goat milk specificity. Sorry, no time to find right now. Use triple the amount of normal starter, and select a very thick strain of S thermophilus, acidophilus, and bulgaricus. Or drain. Or remove water at the beginning by microfiltration.
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What are some suggested draining times and materials that people are using?

Normal 200+ count cloth works well, starting with 2-3 hours. Depends how much water you want to sell and your milk.

Offline NimbinValley

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Re: texture options with yogurt
« Reply #9 on: December 28, 2011, 01:15:17 AM »
Thanks Pav.

I read the WA cheese info.

Do you think tapioca and/or draining will give better/indifferent results with goat milk?

Paul.

linuxboy

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Re: texture options with yogurt
« Reply #10 on: December 28, 2011, 04:06:26 AM »
Tapioca starch will give you less/no water separation... it will help you sell water. And it will also help a bit with overall thickness and mouthfeel. But you can't use it to create thickness like you would consider thickness in a greek yogurt.

Draining will help you achieve higher SNF, which will give you a texture closer to sour cream or a greek type yogurt.

If you want something that will hold a cleave, like when you take a spoonful and it holds an edge, you can do that by using culture, gelatin, or both.

Offline NimbinValley

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Re: texture options with yogurt
« Reply #11 on: December 28, 2011, 09:28:15 PM »
OK.

Gelatin is not an option for me because of the vego issues. 

I will go with cultures and draining and a cultures and tapioca trial.

Thanks.

Tomer1

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Re: texture options with yogurt
« Reply #12 on: December 28, 2011, 09:34:49 PM »
But you can't use it to create thickness like you would consider thickness in a greek yogurt.

Yeah the texture is far from smooth, sort of gummy like.   

Perhaps you can try pectin which is vegan.

linuxboy

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Re: texture options with yogurt
« Reply #13 on: December 28, 2011, 10:50:53 PM »
Great idea, tomer, that does help a bit... I would rely on culture and draining as primary tools, and then add modifiers as possible to see if it gets you closer to the goal.