Author Topic: texture options with yogurt  (Read 1384 times)

Offline eric1

  • Medium Cheese
  • ***
  • Location: Iredell Co., NC
  • Posts: 37
  • Cheeses: 1
  • Default personal text
texture options with yogurt
« on: December 25, 2011, 08:05:00 PM »
What texture profile are you looking for? More like a creamy, sour-cream like yogurt? Or one where you spoon and it forms almost a clean break? Or one that just coats the spoon nicely when you stick it in? Or maybe tell me a commercial variety you like?

I was intrigued by this comment that I transferred from another thread.  I've always viewed these differences as matters of random fortune or misfortune.  I'm sure adding milk powder or gums, etc. can achieve different yogurt styles, but are there ways to achieve noticeably different styles with just cultures and process?  I've tried using different store brands for culture (Dannon, Seven Stars, something that sounds like Eritrea, whatever the popular brand is that advertises the cream on top...), but I never really noticed any difference in the yogurt I made with any of the different brands.  I'd love to have enough understanding to take some control of the variables and intentionally achieve different styles of yogurt.


Guests, join the CheeseForum.org community to remove this ad.


Online linuxboy

  • Old Cheese
  • *****
  • Location: Ukiah, CA
  • Posts: 3,986
  • Cheeses: 199
  • www.wacheese.com
    • Washington Cheese Guild
Re: texture options with yogurt
« Reply #1 on: December 25, 2011, 10:42:48 PM »
Quote
I've always viewed these differences as matters of random fortune or misfortune.
They are, in fact, something you can create with exact specificity, as if you had a dial... which a maker does in yogurt by controlling milk composition, make/treatment, and culture selection.
Quote
but are there ways to achieve noticeably different styles with just cultures and process?
Yes, anything from runny to stand-your-spoon-in thick can be accomplished with bacteria and temp alone. Process does help in the sense that scalding denatures whey protein and caseins adsorb it, making for a thicker set.
Quote
but I never really noticed any difference in the yogurt I made with any of the different brands.
By and large, those are all standard formulations. If you are after specific textural attributes, you have to be very strain-specific in your choices. Especially when it comes to acidophilus and Strep salivarius thermophilus. The major culture houses have specific strains you can use to achieve the taste you want (mild to tart) and the texture you want. Yogurt texture through bacteria is achieved by the various exo-polysaccharide structures (EPS) present on the cell wall. These enable cells to form long chains, and give body and texture to the lactic gel. Anything from ropy and thin to thick.
Taking an extended leave (until 2015) from the forums to build out my farm and dairy. Please e-mail or PM if you need anything.

Offline Tomer1

  • Old Cheese
  • *****
  • Location: Israel
  • Posts: 1,669
  • Cheeses: 33
  • Default personal text
Re: texture options with yogurt
« Reply #2 on: December 26, 2011, 08:02:12 AM »
Quote
scalding denatures whey protein and caseins adsorb it

Does the same effect happends during ultra pastuerization?
Amatuar winemaker,baker, cook and musician
not in any particular order.

Offline eric1

  • Medium Cheese
  • ***
  • Location: Iredell Co., NC
  • Posts: 37
  • Cheeses: 1
  • Default personal text
Re: texture options with yogurt
« Reply #3 on: December 26, 2011, 01:44:53 PM »
Quote
I've always viewed these differences as matters of random fortune or misfortune.
They are, in fact, something you can create with exact specificity, as if you had a dial... which a maker does in yogurt by controlling milk composition, make/treatment, and culture selection.

I feel like I'm a long way from dialing in any intentional options.  Can you give some simple examples of ways that those variables might be manipulated to achieve two or three different styles that would be desirable according to preference? 

Offline margaretsmall

  • Mature Cheese
  • ****
  • Location: Australia
  • Posts: 230
  • Cheeses: 5
Re: texture options with yogurt
« Reply #4 on: December 26, 2011, 03:52:33 PM »
Quote
scalding denatures whey protein and caseins adsorb it

Does the same effect happends during ultra pastuerization?

Is that why UHT milk makes yoghurt even though it doesn't work for cheese?


Guests, join the CheeseForum.org community to remove this ad.


Offline NimbinValley

  • Mature Cheese
  • ****
  • Location: Australia
  • Posts: 288
  • Cheeses: 7
  • Default personal text
Re: texture options with yogurt
« Reply #5 on: December 26, 2011, 10:10:28 PM »
Are all of these options also available to goat milk?  I would like to create a very thick stand your spoon up goat milk yogurt.  To date even with thickeners I just get a coat the back of your spoon yogurt.

Any suggestions anyone?

Offline Tomer1

  • Old Cheese
  • *****
  • Location: Israel
  • Posts: 1,669
  • Cheeses: 33
  • Default personal text
Re: texture options with yogurt
« Reply #6 on: December 26, 2011, 10:38:44 PM »
Drain it.

Goat usually has weaker set, practically all commerical goat yogurt ive seen use thickeners (strach\protein\gums) to enhance a firmer texture.
Amatuar winemaker,baker, cook and musician
not in any particular order.

Offline NimbinValley

  • Mature Cheese
  • ****
  • Location: Australia
  • Posts: 288
  • Cheeses: 7
  • Default personal text
Re: texture options with yogurt
« Reply #7 on: December 26, 2011, 10:51:14 PM »
Yes.  After all of the reading I have done I think draining is my best option, assuming the make is ok.

What are some suggested draining times and materials that people are using?

Thanks.

Online linuxboy

  • Old Cheese
  • *****
  • Location: Ukiah, CA
  • Posts: 3,986
  • Cheeses: 199
  • www.wacheese.com
    • Washington Cheese Guild
Re: texture options with yogurt
« Reply #8 on: December 27, 2011, 06:21:51 PM »
Quote
Does the same effect happends during ultra pastuerization?

Yes, which is why you can't use UHT milk for rennet cheeses, but why it works fine for lactic and many semi-lactic types.
Quote
Can you give some simple examples of ways that those variables might be manipulated to achieve two or three different styles that would be desirable according to preference? 

Can you please read
http://www.wacheese.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=50:cultured-yogurt-howto&catid=48:cultured-dairy&Itemid=68
and then ask a little more specific question to help me out. Mostly, you can control solids, denature or not, and then select cultures, or drain after.
Quote
Are all of these options also available to goat milk?  I would like to create a very thick stand your spoon up goat milk yogurt.  To date even with thickeners I just get a coat the back of your spoon yogurt.

Any suggestions anyone?

yes, and we've had a thread here where I cover goat milk specificity. Sorry, no time to find right now. Use triple the amount of normal starter, and select a very thick strain of S thermophilus, acidophilus, and bulgaricus. Or drain. Or remove water at the beginning by microfiltration.
Quote
What are some suggested draining times and materials that people are using?

Normal 200+ count cloth works well, starting with 2-3 hours. Depends how much water you want to sell and your milk.
Taking an extended leave (until 2015) from the forums to build out my farm and dairy. Please e-mail or PM if you need anything.

Offline NimbinValley

  • Mature Cheese
  • ****
  • Location: Australia
  • Posts: 288
  • Cheeses: 7
  • Default personal text
Re: texture options with yogurt
« Reply #9 on: December 27, 2011, 07:15:17 PM »
Thanks Pav.

I read the WA cheese info.

Do you think tapioca and/or draining will give better/indifferent results with goat milk?

Paul.


Guests, join the CheeseForum.org community to remove this ad.


Online linuxboy

  • Old Cheese
  • *****
  • Location: Ukiah, CA
  • Posts: 3,986
  • Cheeses: 199
  • www.wacheese.com
    • Washington Cheese Guild
Re: texture options with yogurt
« Reply #10 on: December 27, 2011, 10:06:26 PM »
Tapioca starch will give you less/no water separation... it will help you sell water. And it will also help a bit with overall thickness and mouthfeel. But you can't use it to create thickness like you would consider thickness in a greek yogurt.

Draining will help you achieve higher SNF, which will give you a texture closer to sour cream or a greek type yogurt.

If you want something that will hold a cleave, like when you take a spoonful and it holds an edge, you can do that by using culture, gelatin, or both.
Taking an extended leave (until 2015) from the forums to build out my farm and dairy. Please e-mail or PM if you need anything.

Offline NimbinValley

  • Mature Cheese
  • ****
  • Location: Australia
  • Posts: 288
  • Cheeses: 7
  • Default personal text
Re: texture options with yogurt
« Reply #11 on: December 28, 2011, 03:28:15 PM »
OK.

Gelatin is not an option for me because of the vego issues. 

I will go with cultures and draining and a cultures and tapioca trial.

Thanks.

Offline Tomer1

  • Old Cheese
  • *****
  • Location: Israel
  • Posts: 1,669
  • Cheeses: 33
  • Default personal text
Re: texture options with yogurt
« Reply #12 on: December 28, 2011, 03:34:49 PM »
But you can't use it to create thickness like you would consider thickness in a greek yogurt.

Yeah the texture is far from smooth, sort of gummy like.   

Perhaps you can try pectin which is vegan.
Amatuar winemaker,baker, cook and musician
not in any particular order.

Online linuxboy

  • Old Cheese
  • *****
  • Location: Ukiah, CA
  • Posts: 3,986
  • Cheeses: 199
  • www.wacheese.com
    • Washington Cheese Guild
Re: texture options with yogurt
« Reply #13 on: December 28, 2011, 04:50:53 PM »
Great idea, tomer, that does help a bit... I would rely on culture and draining as primary tools, and then add modifiers as possible to see if it gets you closer to the goal.
Taking an extended leave (until 2015) from the forums to build out my farm and dairy. Please e-mail or PM if you need anything.