Appenzeller

[dthelmers]

Not enough hops in beer to act as an antiseptic, I'd think. and not on there long enough. Beer will certainly grow mold when a bit is left in the bottom of the bottle.

[mightyjesse]

http://appenzeller.ch/production/#a-closely-guarded-secret/756/gallery

LOOK AT THIS! Can anyone identify the herbs in these pictures? I think I see anise and chamomile flowers... And either caraway or cumin??? HALP!

[anutcanfly]

Not sure, but that third seed may have been fennel, and I agree the first two looks like chamomile and star anise.

[mightyjesse]

In looking at the bin labels, I think I see cardamom (is that really a "traditional" herb for appenzeller?) and... does anyone read German? Can you make out what's on those labels???

[linuxboy]

In order of appearance:
 
- piment ganz: allspice
- galgantwurzeln: wild type of galangal (maybe officianis)
- rhabarber: rhubarb root
- Zitwerwurzeln: zedoary root (it's a kind of rhizome aka white tumeric/curcuma)
- cardamomensaat: cardamom seed

chamomile, fennel, anise (obvious).. not sure what herb that is in the shot of the four... maybe something like mugwort

[mightyjesse]

I saw in one commentary from the 1800's that they were stirring the cheese with a fir tree branch, so as to aid in coagulation, but the observer noted that it also flavored the whey and made it more palatable. I'm thinking that the use of fir tree branches may add significantly to the flavor profile. Think about the way pine sap smells...

[mightyjesse]

Oh, for heaven's sake... *facepalm*

Many wines and beers in Switzerland have a very distinctive taste that is similar to "Alpine Bitters." Some of the Appenzeller descriptions say that they include the lees (yeast sediment) from local brews... LOOK at this recipe for Alpine (Swedish in this case but in the family.) bitters and think about what the flavor profile would be!!!

The Original Formula of Swedish Bitters is as follows:

10 gm. Aloe*
5 gm. Myrrh
0.2 gm. Saffron
10 gm. Senna leaves
10 gm. Camphor**(natural, white)
10 gm. Rhubarb roots
10 gm. Manna
10 gm. Theriac Venezian
5 gm. Carline Thistle roots
10 gm. Angelica roots
10 gm. Zedoary roots

* Instead of Aloe, Genetian root or Wormwood powder may be used.

** Only natural Camphor should be used.

 
   

This mixture is put into a wide-necked
2 liter bottle and 1.5 liter of 38% to 40% vodka,
rye or fruit spirits is poured over it.
The bottle is left standing in the sun
or near the stove for 14 days and shaken daily.
The liquid is then strained and poured into small
bottles, well stoppered and stored in cool place.
This way it can be kept for many years.
The longer it stands the more effective it
becomes! Shake well before use!
Alternatively some of the liquid can be
strained into a small bottle and the rest
left in the bottle until required.

[linuxboy]

It would make a great deal of sense if bitters were used as a base, and more aromatics and other herbs/spices/roots were added to round out the flavor and aroma profile. My guess is most of the ingredients are added in an even proportion.. say 5%. And the others either for chemical reactions or to round out flavors. No clue what the exact formulation is, but I think that's a great point you're making. I've had some swedish and alpine bitters concoctions, and can definitely see what you're getting at.

[mightyjesse]

I'm going to order some alpine bitters herbs and make myself some experimental brine... But first... I have to do the fangirl dance of glee... LINUXBOY SAID I MAY HAVE A GOOD POINT! ABOUT CHEESE! OMG. *geektastic fangirl dance...*

*cough*

So... yes... Ordering some bitters...

[linuxboy]

lol... hilarious

It's really quite a brilliant connection. The Germans, Swiss, Swedish, Italians, French... all the people with access to a diversity of plants developed their own versions of digestifs or all-purpose medicines. Bitters is a classic example, because from what I recall, in the classic formulations, the approach to bitters was to combine three core types of plants:
- straight bitter-tasting roots and leaves
- aromatics like fennel, anise, ginger
- bitter/sweet things, classic one being gentian

It's not a far stretch to go from those type of multi-plant concoctions as medicine/digestifs to using the blend as a wash for cheese.. maybe mixed in with lees to thicken it up. So if formulating a wash or aromatic brine, it makes a lot of sense to start with a classic bitters recipe, and then tweak it to try and bring out different flavors. I think it's kind of like gin or absinthe... no two are the same, but you can get pretty close and then play with ratios.

[tinysar]

Interesting list of bitters herbs. In trying to find out what on earth Theriac Venezian is, I discovered two possible answers:

1. An eleven-secret-herbs-n-spices-ancient-cure-all containing, well basically bitters ingredients plus a good dash of opium.
2. "Burnet Saxifrage" which is in the parsley/fennel/angelica family and apparently has a bitter-ish pepper/parsley flavour.

So aside from the modern "Theriac" lacking opium (which'd probably just make your cheese bitter anyway), I think these both sound like reasonable candidates for an Appenzeller brine.

[mightyjesse]

Hmmmm. I'm rather inclined to think its the saxifrage for two reasons:

1. Go up about half a dozen posts and watch the video I linked... I was having trouble identifying the cut green herb still that appears as the last teaser of the "secret ingredients." But it totally fits your description of saxifrage.
2. This recipe comes from a modern sales website in the US. They are selling the mixed version of this recipe if you are not inclined to mix this up yourself... I doubt they're peddling anything with opium in it for that price...

Ed to add: I checked another bitters recipe, and it calls for Pimpinella saxifraga, which is another name for Burnet Saxifrage or Theriac Venezian...

[anutcanfly]

You Rock Mighty Jesse!  A cheese for your cleverness! 

[mightyjesse]

And as an even SHORTER shortcut, I'm going to buy a bottle of Angostura bitters (originally formulated by a German doctor and commented as having a flavor VERY similar to the Swedish bitters formulation I posted), and mix it (probably not the whole bottle, mind) into my Appenzeller wash... Because I've only got the ONE cheese so far, and I'm not sure I'm willing to commit to my own brewing operation just for ONE cheese. I might get more involved if this turns out to be amazingly close to the target flavor, but seriously... I try to keep the scope of my cheese projects MANAGEABLE.

[DeejayDebi]

Hmmm managable interesting word. Might have to learn that one! 

Good luck hon. Sounds very promising!